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Message: <blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9541595" data-attributes="member: 6790260">No, there isn't. Fiction is not lies. Fiction certainly isn't real--but not being real does not make something a lie. A lie is deception. Anyone who is deceived by playing D&D into somehow thinking that dragons are real needs to see a psychiatrist ASAP.I get very, very, very tired of this utterly wrong claim that "the DM is always lying to the players." No! They're not! They're describing a fictional space. Just because the descriptions they give don't obtain in the physical, tactile world does not mean their truth-value is totally negative.Odysseus is a fictional figure (perhaps limitedly inspired by a real Mycenaean noble/general), and Telemachus is his fictional son. "Telemachus is the son of Odysseus" is not a lie just because "Odysseus" and "Telemachus" are fictional characters. "Unicorns have a single horn" is not a lie just because unicorns don't exist; it is a true description of a fictional entity, which has a cultural history and has, in fact, had significant impact on the real world despite being almost entirely unreal. "Almost" because unicorns likely arose from images of real animals with horns viewed in profile, thus creating the impression that they had just one horn when the real animal depicted had two.Yes. And rolling in the open is one of the most effective tools for reminding GMs that they shouldn't roll for things where they already know the outcome they want to produce. I find that a lot of GMs who demand the ability to roll behind the screen do so because they're quite lackadaisical, or even lazy, about drawing that distinction. To steal a bit from the next part of this quoted post: they allow almost everything to fall into the "GM isn't really sure" space, which is a poor GMing tactic, something they should learn to avoid.Only for those who think fudging is a good thing. I don't.Again: no it absolutely the hell is not, and I'm so gorram sick of people claiming it is.But you are, at least, correct that the GM actually does lie to the players--as in, actually does deceive them into thinking something is real when it isn't--when they pretend to follow the rules but actually break them. Because that actually IS claiming that something really is true in this physical, tactile world of ours, when it is in fact false.And that would be why I dislike it so. I don't like being lied to and I definitely don't like being manipulated.How exactly does one have a "form of play" that isn't a game? Especially since Fiasco explicitly bills itself as a "roleplaying game." Bully Pulpit Games <a href="https://bullypulpitgames.com/products/fiasco" target="_blank">describes it</a> as, "an award-winning, GM-less game for 3-5 players, designed to be played in a few hours with no preparation." What is missing for it to be "a game"?</blockquote>

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