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Message: <blockquote data-quote="BryonD" data-source="post: 6318755" data-attributes="member: 957">You have already unfairly and unjustly framed the question when you say "these are steel swords breaching his armor and not being dodge".Whenever the rules mandate everything is abstract, some kind of annoying conflict is unavoidable.  (for my tastes)Whenever the rules mandate that everything is physical, some kind of annoying conflict is unavoidable.  (for my tastes)Now, for your case WITH second wind, I'd like to know how YOU justify being able to do all those things after all these "steel swords breaching his armor and not being dodge", being as you have stated these strikes as a fact in your personal case.In the mean time, here is my answer:I strongly prefer (near-on demand) that HP retain the ability to build narrative, on-the-fly, that combines abstract and real damage.  The DM (with player support) controls where the line is draw here for what makes the best sense and maximizes fun.Here are some ground rules for me:A good critical hit with a longsword is a blow that will kill a standard person (a commoner 1, if you will).Even a commoner 1 will recover from pretty much any basic (read HP) damage that doesn't kill him.   (Healing works like characters in TV shows; in the hospital at the end of the episode, but back up an around next week, maybe with a bandage or a limp, like nothing happened another episode out.)These fundamentals apply to PCs, but PCs rapidly outclass normal people.A sword through the middle is just a deadly to a 17th level fighter as it is to a commoner 1.  Even without assistance a 17th level fighter will recover in remarkably less time than is remotely "real world".  But it still takes some time to recover.  (lacking outside healing)Action heroes "ain't got time to bleed".  This means that PCs (and in D&D this applies to anything) can have "serious" cuts and scrapes but still function at full strength.  We are not talking broken limbs or extreme trauma.  But serious bleeding, gashes, thumps to the head, etc, don't slow you down until you get that hit that takes you below 0 HP.  That is the heroic nature of D&D and it works for me.In your case the 5th level fighter was on the receiving end of numerous blows, any one of which would be a grievous wound to a common person, and one that would have been an easy one hit kill.  But I reject your mandate that "these are steel swords breaching his armor and not being dodge".  I do embrace the idea that most gained HP are skill/luck/karma/fate.  Thus the idea that the one hit kill blow must have still embrace the CRITICAL HIT!!! obligation of being run through doesn't hold for me.  Avoiding the critical hit takes up more karma than avoiding the merely "grievous wound" hits.  (proportionally to the HP value).  But this also does not mean the blow must have been avoided altogether.  The character is collecting "serious bleeding, gashes, thumps to the head, etc".  He is not slowed down, but his HP represents a combination of the physical and luck.  I think any effort to quantify the break between these two is a bad idea and leads to conflict.  But there is some damage that has to heal over time.  The time will be very fast compared to reality, but it takes time.Here is a concept that I have never seen in print, but to me has always been intuitive and has always worked well.  The healing of the abstract HP is directly correlated to the healing of both real physical damage and the “avoided” value of physical damage that the abstract HP allowed the character to not suffer.  Obviously this is mandatory since they are one pool of points.  But it also has a nice side effect of glossing over why cure light wounds can return a deathbed commoner 1 to full strength, but a high level fighter sees minimal benefit (setting aside the case of going from negative to positive).  The healing is restoring both “karma” or whatever, as well as mending cuts.  The energy is absorbed into this abstraction.Thus, my narrative is that the 2 HP remaining 5th level fighter did NOT have swords going through him.  But he is seriously roughed up and bloodied.  (not meaning the 4E term)  He needs several days (or external healing) before he faces the next squad of goblins.  He can swing his sword just as well because he has no truly debilitating wounds and he “ain’t got time to bleed”.  But he is a little beat up and all out of karma.  So the next blow that would through and through a commoner, is probably going to through and through him as well.  If he can find somewhere to rest for the night, then he will be a 7 HP.  Better than before, but he still needs a lot before he is ready to take on another squad of goblins.  His capacity to swing the sword is unaffected in either case.  But his total combat capacity in the “can’t self-heal” case still reflects the burden of that last battle.  In the self healing case he is able to back at full strength with no lingering effects.  It is impossible for him to receive any damage from the goblins that isn’t gone in 24 hours.I’m not looking to argue with anyone who loves self healing.  Play what you like.  But, for me, it is easy to see how the demand of outside healing can and does work.  And it fits my taste and desire for simulation of fantasy stories and action movies much better.  So I play what I like.  I’m looking forward to trying 5E.  It has a lot of bits that appeal to me.  The HD healing is a concern, but I’m looking for ways to mitigate it.  And I have reason to hope they will be there.  If not, there are plenty of other great games out there.</blockquote>

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