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Should the Fighter's "Second Wind" ability grant temporary HP instead of regular HP?
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<blockquote data-quote="DDNFan" data-source="post: 6319979" data-attributes="member: 6776483"><p>1) Rest for 1 hour, do some jumping jacks for 5 minutes. Rest again. One fighter ability shouldn't force the DM to railroad players to not do whatever their characters want to do, including taking a long rest after unloading all spells and doing that each day. If players want to do that, they can and should be able to. It's legal. There should be only story ramifications of taking more time to rest than you probably should.</p><p></p><p>2) So the game is broken for the first 5 levels, which is around half of the levels that most campaigns attain (which is around ten). The game is half-broken then. Unless you enable 5 minute short rests, then it's completely broken wide open again. As many 4e fans on this thread are saying, they don't want unlimited healing back to full without it costing hit dice. Wizards goofed up here.</p><p></p><p>3) You should look at this from the point of view of the entire dungeon. If the fighter can absorb all his personal incoming damage for free after 5, 10, 15 minutes of rest, (or one, two, three hours later), then it makes them an unstoppable regenerating tank, ploughing through the dungeon.</p><p></p><p>4) 5 minute work day is actually much better than this scenario. This is 30 seconds of combat, and a few hours of rest back to 100% full, no hit dice spent or cure wounds from the cleric wasted. Sure, in dungeons you can't always take more than an hour, but plenty of times you can, such as when you're exploring. It's easy to imagine waiting around on guard all day and wave after wave of monsters come and the fighter ends his day at 100% with no hit dice spent. In a 24 hour period, with one long rest at 8 hours, that leaves 16 hours to do short rests, unless you're pressed for time, which taking an extra hour here or there is much less severe than taking a whole day just to get a single long rest. If you had to wait four hours before the next short rest "works", that would be different. But there's no current rule that restricts taking back to back short rests. The 5 minute work day is a fallacy because it's more like 5 minutes, then 16 hours of waiting around when bad things can and probably will happen, before you can refresh your spells. That is not the same as a fighter doing a few battles then the party hides for a few hours. If the DM only ever allows one hour rests, that's really rail-roady and awful, terrible game design.</p><p></p><p>5) It's sad that the cleric's life ability can only re-fuel up to 50%, but a fighter can heal up to 100%. Both are bad, but the fighter one is totally broken and forces you to play the game like the fighter <em>never </em>wounded, only tired. Not only do some people not want their characters to die in D&D, the designers apparently thought they don't even want them to ever get <em>injured</em>. If you can restore to 100% HP by regaining stamina only, that means 0% of that is actual damage.</p><p></p><p>They need to fix this. It is broken for the regular game, but even more broken for the 4th edition game. After each 5 minute rest you gain 1d10+level HP. That is comparable or maybe even better than a troll's natural regeneration, I think.</p><p></p><p>The solution to this isn't to tell DMs not to allow players to take short rests, even if there is no time pressure, it's to fix the actual problem. This is a serious problem, one which doesn't exist when Second Wind restores Temp HP, since after 5 minutes those temps go away. It was much better in the final playtest, and then they apparently listened to feedback and broke the game. </p><p></p><p>When the DM has to railroad the players into not taking <em>short </em>rests because of <em>one </em>power, that they decided to give the fighter, the game is broken. Yayyyyy.</p><p></p><p>This needs to be fixed as a Day 0 errata before I'm buying the PHB. I was going to buy the Starter set and DM it for my niece, but I just can't at this point. Even if I ignore the fact that it's unbelievable, it's also broken completely independently of that. I don't want to railroad my players into not taking short rests, and I don't want to be railroaded into not doing so either, or told by Mike Mearls that it's my fault if myself or my players are "cheesy" enough to try and actually take advantage of their powers as written. They had two years of open playtests and they ship the game with this, and tell people that chained short rests break the game and expect people to buy it? Seriously, wth.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DDNFan, post: 6319979, member: 6776483"] 1) Rest for 1 hour, do some jumping jacks for 5 minutes. Rest again. One fighter ability shouldn't force the DM to railroad players to not do whatever their characters want to do, including taking a long rest after unloading all spells and doing that each day. If players want to do that, they can and should be able to. It's legal. There should be only story ramifications of taking more time to rest than you probably should. 2) So the game is broken for the first 5 levels, which is around half of the levels that most campaigns attain (which is around ten). The game is half-broken then. Unless you enable 5 minute short rests, then it's completely broken wide open again. As many 4e fans on this thread are saying, they don't want unlimited healing back to full without it costing hit dice. Wizards goofed up here. 3) You should look at this from the point of view of the entire dungeon. If the fighter can absorb all his personal incoming damage for free after 5, 10, 15 minutes of rest, (or one, two, three hours later), then it makes them an unstoppable regenerating tank, ploughing through the dungeon. 4) 5 minute work day is actually much better than this scenario. This is 30 seconds of combat, and a few hours of rest back to 100% full, no hit dice spent or cure wounds from the cleric wasted. Sure, in dungeons you can't always take more than an hour, but plenty of times you can, such as when you're exploring. It's easy to imagine waiting around on guard all day and wave after wave of monsters come and the fighter ends his day at 100% with no hit dice spent. In a 24 hour period, with one long rest at 8 hours, that leaves 16 hours to do short rests, unless you're pressed for time, which taking an extra hour here or there is much less severe than taking a whole day just to get a single long rest. If you had to wait four hours before the next short rest "works", that would be different. But there's no current rule that restricts taking back to back short rests. The 5 minute work day is a fallacy because it's more like 5 minutes, then 16 hours of waiting around when bad things can and probably will happen, before you can refresh your spells. That is not the same as a fighter doing a few battles then the party hides for a few hours. If the DM only ever allows one hour rests, that's really rail-roady and awful, terrible game design. 5) It's sad that the cleric's life ability can only re-fuel up to 50%, but a fighter can heal up to 100%. Both are bad, but the fighter one is totally broken and forces you to play the game like the fighter [I]never [/I]wounded, only tired. Not only do some people not want their characters to die in D&D, the designers apparently thought they don't even want them to ever get [I]injured[/I]. If you can restore to 100% HP by regaining stamina only, that means 0% of that is actual damage. They need to fix this. It is broken for the regular game, but even more broken for the 4th edition game. After each 5 minute rest you gain 1d10+level HP. That is comparable or maybe even better than a troll's natural regeneration, I think. The solution to this isn't to tell DMs not to allow players to take short rests, even if there is no time pressure, it's to fix the actual problem. This is a serious problem, one which doesn't exist when Second Wind restores Temp HP, since after 5 minutes those temps go away. It was much better in the final playtest, and then they apparently listened to feedback and broke the game. When the DM has to railroad the players into not taking [I]short [/I]rests because of [I]one [/I]power, that they decided to give the fighter, the game is broken. Yayyyyy. This needs to be fixed as a Day 0 errata before I'm buying the PHB. I was going to buy the Starter set and DM it for my niece, but I just can't at this point. Even if I ignore the fact that it's unbelievable, it's also broken completely independently of that. I don't want to railroad my players into not taking short rests, and I don't want to be railroaded into not doing so either, or told by Mike Mearls that it's my fault if myself or my players are "cheesy" enough to try and actually take advantage of their powers as written. They had two years of open playtests and they ship the game with this, and tell people that chained short rests break the game and expect people to buy it? Seriously, wth. [/QUOTE]
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Should the Fighter's "Second Wind" ability grant temporary HP instead of regular HP?
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