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Should the PHB have an arcane half caster?
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<blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 8876156" data-attributes="member: 93670"><p>While citing the 2e exp tables you might want to compare the spell slots available to bars vrs wizards at different levels of experience. You can't compare levlx to level x for the very reason that you cite. Yes bards got experience for finding gold, they did not get experience for casting spells. Wizards got experience for casting spells instead of finding gold. </p><p>[spoiler="bard to wizard spell slots per level"]</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">L1: Bard exp needed 0- Wizard Exp needed:0<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Bard Slots:[ispoiler] <strong> -none-</strong>/[/ispoiler]hardly the hallmark of a "full caster"</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Wizard Slots: 1</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">L2 Bard exp needed 1,250 - Wizard Exp needed: 2,500<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Bard Slots: 1</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Wizard Slots: 2</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">L3 Bard exp needed 2,500- Wizard Exp needed: 5,000<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Bard Slots: 2</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Wizard Slots: 2/1</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">L4 Bard exp needed 5,000- Wizard Exp needed: 10,000<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Bard Slots: 2/1</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Wizard Slots: 3/2</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">L:5 Bard exp needed 10,000- Wizard Exp needed: 20,000<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Bard Slots: 3/1</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Wizard Slots: 4/2/1</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">L6 Bard exp needed 20,000- Wizard Exp needed: 40,000<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Bard Slots: 3/2</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Wizard Slots: 4/3/2</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">L7 Bard exp needed 40,000- Wizard Exp needed: 60,000<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Bard Slots: 3/2/1</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Wizard Slots: 4/3/2/1</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">L8 Bard exp needed 70,000- Wizard Exp needed: 90.000<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Bard Slots: 3/3/1</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Wizard Slots: 4/3/3/2</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">L9 Bard exp needed 110,000- Wizard Exp needed: 135.000<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Bard Slots: 3/3/2</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Wizard Slots: 4/3/3/2/1</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">L10 Bard exp needed 160,000- Wizard Exp needed: 250,000<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Bard Slots: 3/3/2/1</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Wizard Slots: 4/4/3/2/2</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">L11 Bard exp needed 220,000- Wizard Exp needed: 375,000<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Bard Slots: 3/3/3/1</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Wizard Slots:4/4/4/3/3</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">L12 Bard exp needed 440,000- Wizard Exp needed: 750,000<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Bard Slots: 3/3/3/2</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Wizard Slots: 4/4/4/4/4/1</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">L13 Bard exp needed 660,000- Wizard Exp needed: 1,125,000<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Bard Slots: 3/3/2/1</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Wizard Slots: 5/5/5/4/4/2</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">L14 Bard exp needed 880,000- Wizard Exp needed: 1,5000,000<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Bard Slots: 3/3/3/3/1</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Wizard Slots: 5/5/5/4/4/2/1</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">L15 Bard exp needed 1,100,000- Wizard Exp needed: 1,875,000<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Bard Slots: 3/3/3/3/1</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Wizard Slots: 5/5/5/5/5/2/1</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">L16 Bard exp needed 1,320,000- Wizard Exp needed: 2,250,000<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Bard Slots: 4/3/3/3/2/1</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Wizard Slots: 5/5/5/5/5/3/2/1</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">L17 Bard exp needed 1,540,000- Wizard Exp needed: 2,625,000<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Bard Slots: 4/4/3/3/3/1</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Wizard Slots: 5/5/5/5/5/3/3/2</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">L18 Bard exp needed 1,760,000- Wizard Exp needed: 3,000,000<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Bard Slots: 4/4/4/3/3/2</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Wizard Slots: 5/5/5/5/5/3/3/2/1</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">L19 Bard exp needed 1,980,000- Wizard Exp needed: 3,375,000<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Bard Slots: 4/4/4/4/3/2</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Wizard Slots: 5/5/5/5/5/3/3/3/1</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">L20 Bard exp needed 2,200,000- Wizard Exp needed: 3,750,000<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Bard Slots: 4/4/4/4/4/3- Notice they never get above 6th level slots ?... Again not very indicative of a "full caster"</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Wizard Slots: 5/5/5/5/5/4/3/3/2 slots. </li> </ul></li> </ul><p>[/spoiler]</p><p>Even if you compare 2e spell slots at exp N to exp N there's no case for calling bards a "full caster" 20,000 will give you a level 5 wizard with 4/2/<strong>1</strong> spell slots to a level 6 bard with only 3/2 slots. Then at 250,000 you get a level 10 wizard with 4/4/3/2/<strong>2</strong> slots to a level 11& change bard with 3/3/3/1 spell slots. Later at 1,875,000 you get a level 15 wizard with 5/5/5/5/5/2/<strong>1</strong> slots to a level 17 bard with 4/4/3/3/3/1.. Still later at 2,250,000 you get a level 16 wizard with 5/5/5/5/5/3/<strong>2</strong>/<strong>1 </strong>slots & 4 more levels to go in wizard compared to a maxed out level 20 bard with 4/4/4/4/4/3 who will never see level 7 or 8 spells.</p><p></p><p>With 3.x... Everyone had the same exp per <em>character</em> level & spell slots per <em>caster</em> level but bards had reduced <em>caster</em> level progression <em>and</em> every caster got certain spells at different levels so bards could no longer so just grab whatever they wanted from the wizard list</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="tetrasodium, post: 8876156, member: 93670"] While citing the 2e exp tables you might want to compare the spell slots available to bars vrs wizards at different levels of experience. You can't compare levlx to level x for the very reason that you cite. Yes bards got experience for finding gold, they did not get experience for casting spells. Wizards got experience for casting spells instead of finding gold. [spoiler="bard to wizard spell slots per level"] [LIST] [*]L1: Bard exp needed 0- Wizard Exp needed:0 [LIST] [*]Bard Slots:[ispoiler] [B] -none-[/B]/[/ispoiler]hardly the hallmark of a "full caster" [*]Wizard Slots: 1 [/LIST] [*]L2 Bard exp needed 1,250 - Wizard Exp needed: 2,500 [LIST] [*]Bard Slots: 1 [*]Wizard Slots: 2 [/LIST] [*]L3 Bard exp needed 2,500- Wizard Exp needed: 5,000 [LIST] [*]Bard Slots: 2 [*]Wizard Slots: 2/1 [/LIST] [*]L4 Bard exp needed 5,000- Wizard Exp needed: 10,000 [LIST] [*]Bard Slots: 2/1 [*]Wizard Slots: 3/2 [/LIST] [*]L:5 Bard exp needed 10,000- Wizard Exp needed: 20,000 [LIST] [*]Bard Slots: 3/1 [*]Wizard Slots: 4/2/1 [/LIST] [*]L6 Bard exp needed 20,000- Wizard Exp needed: 40,000 [LIST] [*]Bard Slots: 3/2 [*]Wizard Slots: 4/3/2 [/LIST] [*]L7 Bard exp needed 40,000- Wizard Exp needed: 60,000 [LIST] [*]Bard Slots: 3/2/1 [*]Wizard Slots: 4/3/2/1 [/LIST] [*]L8 Bard exp needed 70,000- Wizard Exp needed: 90.000 [LIST] [*]Bard Slots: 3/3/1 [*]Wizard Slots: 4/3/3/2 [/LIST] [*]L9 Bard exp needed 110,000- Wizard Exp needed: 135.000 [LIST] [*]Bard Slots: 3/3/2 [*]Wizard Slots: 4/3/3/2/1 [/LIST] [*]L10 Bard exp needed 160,000- Wizard Exp needed: 250,000 [LIST] [*]Bard Slots: 3/3/2/1 [*]Wizard Slots: 4/4/3/2/2 [/LIST] [*]L11 Bard exp needed 220,000- Wizard Exp needed: 375,000 [LIST] [*]Bard Slots: 3/3/3/1 [*]Wizard Slots:4/4/4/3/3 [/LIST] [*]L12 Bard exp needed 440,000- Wizard Exp needed: 750,000 [LIST] [*]Bard Slots: 3/3/3/2 [*]Wizard Slots: 4/4/4/4/4/1 [/LIST] [*]L13 Bard exp needed 660,000- Wizard Exp needed: 1,125,000 [LIST] [*]Bard Slots: 3/3/2/1 [*]Wizard Slots: 5/5/5/4/4/2 [/LIST] [*]L14 Bard exp needed 880,000- Wizard Exp needed: 1,5000,000 [LIST] [*]Bard Slots: 3/3/3/3/1 [*]Wizard Slots: 5/5/5/4/4/2/1 [/LIST] [*]L15 Bard exp needed 1,100,000- Wizard Exp needed: 1,875,000 [LIST] [*]Bard Slots: 3/3/3/3/1 [*]Wizard Slots: 5/5/5/5/5/2/1 [/LIST] [*]L16 Bard exp needed 1,320,000- Wizard Exp needed: 2,250,000 [LIST] [*]Bard Slots: 4/3/3/3/2/1 [*]Wizard Slots: 5/5/5/5/5/3/2/1 [/LIST] [*]L17 Bard exp needed 1,540,000- Wizard Exp needed: 2,625,000 [LIST] [*]Bard Slots: 4/4/3/3/3/1 [*]Wizard Slots: 5/5/5/5/5/3/3/2 [/LIST] [*]L18 Bard exp needed 1,760,000- Wizard Exp needed: 3,000,000 [LIST] [*]Bard Slots: 4/4/4/3/3/2 [*]Wizard Slots: 5/5/5/5/5/3/3/2/1 [/LIST] [*]L19 Bard exp needed 1,980,000- Wizard Exp needed: 3,375,000 [LIST] [*]Bard Slots: 4/4/4/4/3/2 [*]Wizard Slots: 5/5/5/5/5/3/3/3/1 [/LIST] [*]L20 Bard exp needed 2,200,000- Wizard Exp needed: 3,750,000 [LIST] [*]Bard Slots: 4/4/4/4/4/3- Notice they never get above 6th level slots ?... Again not very indicative of a "full caster" [*]Wizard Slots: 5/5/5/5/5/4/3/3/2 slots. [/LIST] [/LIST] [/spoiler] Even if you compare 2e spell slots at exp N to exp N there's no case for calling bards a "full caster" 20,000 will give you a level 5 wizard with 4/2/[B]1[/B] spell slots to a level 6 bard with only 3/2 slots. Then at 250,000 you get a level 10 wizard with 4/4/3/2/[B]2[/B] slots to a level 11& change bard with 3/3/3/1 spell slots. Later at 1,875,000 you get a level 15 wizard with 5/5/5/5/5/2/[B]1[/B] slots to a level 17 bard with 4/4/3/3/3/1.. Still later at 2,250,000 you get a level 16 wizard with 5/5/5/5/5/3/[B]2[/B]/[B]1 [/B]slots & 4 more levels to go in wizard compared to a maxed out level 20 bard with 4/4/4/4/4/3 who will never see level 7 or 8 spells. With 3.x... Everyone had the same exp per [I]character[/I] level & spell slots per [I]caster[/I] level but bards had reduced [I]caster[/I] level progression [I]and[/I] every caster got certain spells at different levels so bards could no longer so just grab whatever they wanted from the wizard list [/QUOTE]
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Should the PHB have an arcane half caster?
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