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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Umbran" data-source="post: 1112536" data-attributes="member: 177">I'm sorry tetsujin28, but in what capacity have you dealt with thousands of player responses over the years?  If you're going to claim authority on the subject, I'd prefer that you be a bit more specific.  Experience doesn't mean you cannot be wrong.  I've seen professional game designers who are known for good work say things like "hero points are a patently bad design".  Never mind the fact that lots of people enjoy the mechanic tremendously, and the only measure of the value of a design is how much people like to use it.  Never mind that one cannot evaluate a mechanic in general, outside the context of a whole set of game rules.  So, even professionals can on occasion mistake personal preferences for objective truth.  I don't see how Tweet's other products matter.  When he sat down to design D&D, he accepted (if not created) a design that was more class-based than skill-based.  If Tweet is a competent designer, then that suggests that class-based really isn't all that bad, since it was good enough for him to work with.  If Tweet is incompetent, then appealing to his other work as an incompetent doesn't support your position.That position is somewhat at odds with <a href="http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/br/br20010323a" target="_blank">WotC market research as of 1999</a>.  Specifically, WotC says that their research suggests:"3% of the U.S. population between the ages of 12 and 35 (approximately 2.8 million people) play paper-based tabletop roleplaying games (TRPGs) at least once per month. 59% of monthly TRPG players (approximately 1.65 million) play Dungeons & Dragons at least once per month."So, that leaves some 41% of monthly gamers (approx 1.15 million people) not playing D&D.  Most of the non-D&D games are what I'd call "skill-based" (your list of RuneQuest, Gurps, and Hero is hardly inclusive).  And many of the D&D players also play other games, and are likely to have been exposed to skill-based systems.  So, I don't think my numbers are that far off.  The truth may be that no single game puts up much competition to D&D.  But in aggregate, they become considerable.Respectfully, Tetsujin28, that is not what you said.  I quote:"Most people, once exposed to a skill-based system (whether RuneQuest in '77, or GURPS or Hero today) find it very difficult to go back to the restrictions of the D&D class system."You'll note the decided lack of anything to the effect of the words "in my experience" there.  You stated it as a fact.  Perhaps it was unintentional, but you took the position of knowing The Truth. If it was unintentional, you should watch your wording.  Because folks aren't going to assume the "IME" is there.  They'll simply get cheesed off at you and the discussion will get heated.  If it was intentional, then you kinda deserve to have people get cheesed off at you, because in order to speak for that many gamers, you need some pretty well-designed market research, and so far you've given no sign that you have such.</blockquote>

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