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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 5575482" data-attributes="member: 42582">I think so.I think that the Forge does a good job in identifying narrativism as an alternative approach to play from challenge/&quot;step-on-up&quot; play and exploration-focused play.But I think the Forge does a mediocre job of actually elaborating narrativist play. I think that Ron Edwards is an academic biologist. I don't think he's as good at literary criticism, and he offers an overly narrow account of what thematic play can aim at. He talks about human moral questions, but there is a range of other domains of evaluation that a game can focus on - the aesthetic, for example - and &quot;moral&quot; is also a bit overloaded. The narrowness of Edwards' &quot;official&quot; description of narrativism is shown when he describes The Dying Earth as supporting narrativist play - he's right, but not because The Dying Earth address deep moral issues. It's rather because the Dying Earth RPG is written to focus play on a range of aesthetic issues that are't deep mortal questions but are nevertheless fun and amusing.Like your sign-off suggests, it's relative to player goals. In my experience it will start to become a bug about the time that a player wants to address a thematic question (like the moral and aesthetic value of necromancy) via the medium of play. (Elf Witch has said this didn't motivate the player of the dwarf in her game. She's best placed to know! Like I said upthread, I'm trying to talk in general terms about how an RPG can be played and GMed, and am not intending to offer her or her roommate any targeted advice.)The reference to Neitszche is interesting. Because in the actual play of a traditional RPG it won't be an actual divinity, nor socially diffused tradition, that enforces alignment. It will be the GM. That's what makes the notion of railroading apposite, in my view.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 5575482, member: 42582"] I think so. I think that the Forge does a good job in identifying narrativism as an alternative approach to play from challenge/"step-on-up" play and exploration-focused play. But I think the Forge does a mediocre job of actually elaborating narrativist play. I think that Ron Edwards is an academic biologist. I don't think he's as good at literary criticism, and he offers an overly narrow account of what thematic play can aim at. He talks about human moral questions, but there is a range of other domains of evaluation that a game can focus on - the aesthetic, for example - and "moral" is also a bit overloaded. The narrowness of Edwards' "official" description of narrativism is shown when he describes The Dying Earth as supporting narrativist play - he's right, but not because The Dying Earth address deep moral issues. It's rather because the Dying Earth RPG is written to focus play on a range of aesthetic issues that are't deep mortal questions but are nevertheless fun and amusing. Like your sign-off suggests, it's relative to player goals. In my experience it will start to become a bug about the time that a player wants to address a thematic question (like the moral and aesthetic value of necromancy) via the medium of play. (Elf Witch has said this [I]didn't[/I] motivate the player of the dwarf in her game. She's best placed to know! Like I said upthread, I'm trying to talk in general terms about how an RPG can be played and GMed, and am not intending to offer her or her roommate any targeted advice.) The reference to Neitszche is interesting. Because in the actual play of a traditional RPG it won't be an actual divinity, nor socially diffused tradition, that enforces alignment. It will be the GM. [I]That's[/I] what makes the notion of railroading apposite, in my view. [/QUOTE]

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