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Message: <blockquote data-quote="The Shaman" data-source="post: 5577491" data-attributes="member: 26473">Those examples demostrate that human beings are extremely expedient.I mentioned the Cossacks because I just finished reading With Fire and Sword this weekend, but there's actually nothing specific to the Wild Lands about those examples, which crop up all over the world through human history.A recurring joke among gamers is that if an object can be set on fire, at some point in the game it will be set on fire, and indeed, the Cossacks set a forest on fire to burn out an army in Sienkiewicz's tale. There're are good reasons players think to try these things.Given that human beings choose inexpedient solutions based on their values in a world that favors expedience, I think too much emphasis on 'expressing other values' runs the risk of producing a game which is overly restrictive and contrived.Agreed.I tend to see it as more interesting when characters pursue the inexpedient with the full knowledge there are more expedient solutions.On our last game-night, one of the adventurers allowed himself to be fired upon by a pair of Cardinal's Guards with arquebuses in order to satisfy his personal honor. There was no mechanical benefit to be derived from this action - he did it because he feared the social consequences of not doing it, social consequences without mechanical limitations or advantages in the rules of the game.In my experience some of the games which offer some kind of mechanical advantage for expressing character values very interesting - Pendragon and Dogs in the Vineyard come to mind. I don't find them better than games which lack these rules, however.Yeah, you've seen the reception my views on character backgrounds and attributes get, so I know how that goes. Knowing next to nothing about 4e, I'm not in a position to dispute that.I do find the idea that players may be responsible for introducing thematic concerns through their play very interesting. It fits with my approach, creating a game-world in which the adventurers are enmeshed in an environment filled with genre tropes off of which to play.</blockquote>

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