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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 5584579" data-attributes="member: 22779">I disagree that narrativist needs to be more narrow, since going the non-simulationist route allows for play that would not normally occur if you go the sim route - see the example of playing a nar version of Keep on the Borderlands earlier.&nbsp; If the most likely result of sim play of KotB is not a game based around the morality of cleaning out the Caves, then, obviously, sim play is the wrong approach to use if you want to play out that morality theme.I would also point out that your earlier example in the Terrorist Game would be perfectly fine as a player.&nbsp; You are basically saying that &quot;my character behaves in such and such a way for such and such a reason&quot; and you can explore the ramifications of holding those beliefs.My problem comes when the GM makes that the objective reason for the behavior of the characters.&nbsp; Instead of &quot;my character acting in such and such a way&quot;, it becomes, &quot;Your characters will act in such and such a way for such and such a reason.&quot;&nbsp; The GM is defining the characteristics of the PC's.In some games, like D&amp;D, that's pretty much expected.&nbsp; That's what alignment is all about after all.&nbsp; Your character is Good and, as such, is expected to act in certain ways because your character is Good.&nbsp; (or evil, or whatever)&nbsp; However, if the game is about exploring the idea of whether or not something actually is moral, then starting with an objective definition negates the entire point of play.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 5584579, member: 22779"] I disagree that narrativist needs to be more narrow, since going the non-simulationist route allows for play that would not normally occur if you go the sim route - see the example of playing a nar version of Keep on the Borderlands earlier. If the most likely result of sim play of KotB is not a game based around the morality of cleaning out the Caves, then, obviously, sim play is the wrong approach to use if you want to play out that morality theme. I would also point out that your earlier example in the Terrorist Game would be perfectly fine [u]as a player[/u]. You are basically saying that "my character behaves in such and such a way for such and such a reason" and you can explore the ramifications of holding those beliefs. My problem comes when the GM makes that the objective reason for the behavior of the characters. Instead of "my character acting in such and such a way", it becomes, "Your characters will act in such and such a way for such and such a reason." The GM is defining the characteristics of the PC's. In some games, like D&D, that's pretty much expected. That's what alignment is all about after all. Your character is Good and, as such, is expected to act in certain ways because your character is Good. (or evil, or whatever) However, if the game is about exploring the idea of whether or not something actually is moral, then starting with an objective definition negates the entire point of play. [/QUOTE]

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