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<blockquote data-quote="random user" data-source="post: 1532875" data-attributes="member: 16581">OK, so he's +1 for being a 5th level barbarian, +2 for raging, and -2 for being an orc (or does the initial orc save modifier not get taken into account? Under orc it lists: Saves: Fort +3, Ref +0, Will –2) So he's rolling at a +1.&nbsp; That's not that good of a modifier really.&nbsp; Even at +3 if the orc doesn't taken account, you're saving vs a probably DC16 (I would assume with an array like that the cleric would put the 18 in wis, though, it might be DC15).&nbsp; At best the orc has a 55% chance of being affected; at worst he has a 70% chance of being affected.Chances are that one hold person, if not both, are going to land.I DM in a campaign with high stat PCs (the exact same array actually) and it makes a TON of difference in what the party can handle.edit: ok I forgot to take into account that the orcs might have high wis, so the %'s may be lower by 5% per bonus they get from the wis.&nbsp; My bad.&nbsp; Still, it's a very good chance to immobilize at least one, and turning a fight from 5 vs 4 to 5 vs 3 is still significant.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="random user, post: 1532875, member: 16581"] OK, so he's +1 for being a 5th level barbarian, +2 for raging, and -2 for being an orc (or does the initial orc save modifier not get taken into account? Under orc it lists: Saves: Fort +3, Ref +0, Will –2) So he's rolling at a +1. That's not that good of a modifier really. Even at +3 if the orc doesn't taken account, you're saving vs a probably DC16 (I would assume with an array like that the cleric would put the 18 in wis, though, it might be DC15). At best the orc has a 55% chance of being affected; at worst he has a 70% chance of being affected. Chances are that one hold person, if not both, are going to land. I DM in a campaign with high stat PCs (the exact same array actually) and it makes a TON of difference in what the party can handle. edit: ok I forgot to take into account that the orcs might have high wis, so the %'s may be lower by 5% per bonus they get from the wis. My bad. Still, it's a very good chance to immobilize at least one, and turning a fight from 5 vs 4 to 5 vs 3 is still significant. [/QUOTE]

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