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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Zhure" data-source="post: 117979" data-attributes="member: 308">Once more into the breechFirst the issue of what Miracle does:The character doesn’t so much cast a miracle as request one. The character states what the character would like to have happen and requests that the character's deity (or the power the character prays to for spells) intercede. The DM then determines the particular effect of the miracle.So far, sounds like a stat increase is possible.A miracle can do any of the following:-Duplicate any cleric spell of up to 8th level (including spells to which the character has access because of the character's domains). Well, it normally takes a Wish to grant inherent bonuses. Wish is 9th level, Miracle can't duplicate Wish. And Wish is an arcane spell (unless the Cleric has a Domain of Magic).-Duplicate any other spell of up to 7th level. The closest would be Limited Wish, which I think we all can agree won't do it either.Undo the harmful effects of certain spells, such as feeblemind or insanity.Sorry, nothing there.Have any effect whose power level is in line with the above effects. The question then is, "does granting a permanent inherent bonus in line with the above examples?"The answer is "no." Since it takes a Wish to grant a permanent inherent bonus, and Miracle can't emulate a Wish, then no.If the miracle has any of the above effects, casting it carries no experience point cost.So, assuming Miracle *can* grant a permanent inherent bonus, it will cost experience points.Alternatively, the cleric can make a very powerful request. Casting such a miracle costs the cleric 5,000 XP because of the powerful divine energies involved. A request that is out of line with the deity’s (or alignment’s) nature is refused.So, a deity would grant an inherent bonus to a stat if it is in line with the deity's nature, domains, or alignment. Would a deity of Strength and War grant an increase in STR? I'd rule so. Would he grant a bonus to WIS? Perhaps. It is after all one aspect of the deity, to grant WIS. CHA? Maybe, depends on the backstory of the deity. DEX? It could well be the deity is famed for his agility. INT? Probably not, but again it depends on the aspects of the deity, the deity's history and mythology. Each characteristic would have to be scrutinized on a case-by-case basis. Each time casting would cost 5,000 XP.A duplicated spell allows saving throws and SR as normal (but save DCs are for a 9th-level spell). When a miracle duplicates a spell that has an XP cost, the character must pay that cost. When a miracle spell duplicates a spell with a material component that costs more than 100 gp, the character must provide that component.XP Cost: 5,000 XP (for some uses of the miracle spell; see above).Patently, any use for inherent bonuses would cost XP.Now the issue of Craft Wondrous Item, Miracle and Tomes/Books/Librams. It isn't necessary to cast Miracle to craft a Book. The spell need only be prepared and the slot is expended, so there's no XP cost other than the XP used in the manufacture of the item because Miracle is never cast in the first place. What Miracle can and cannot do is unrelated, as is demonstrated in numerous examples in the item creation process. (See earlier posts).Maintaining that Miracle automatically grants the abilities of Wish when the spell description doesn't say anything of the like is nonsensical to me. That's like saying Greater Emulation allows one to use the rules for Wish, because the two abilities are congruent. They aren't identical; each has slightly different characteristics.Hope that helps,Greg</blockquote>

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