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<blockquote data-quote="Morrus" data-source="post: 4283048" data-attributes="member: 1">1) You can use it for any skill check; i'ts thus an integral part of the number-crunching.&nbsp; Not incoprprating it into your model doesn't provide a result which accurately reflects 4E D&amp;D, merely one which reflects a similar system you've based on it.2) In addition, there's nothing to stop PCs choosing &quot;easy&quot; for every single check.&nbsp; 3) Additional modifiers will mean that the highest skill score will often exceed 9.&nbsp; Racial bonuses to both the ability score and the skill itself; bonuses granted to other characters; basic equipment (thieves tools, climbing kit, all of which add 2).What you've done is identify one disadvantaged strategy for the PCs, assuming they do nothing to help themselves.&nbsp; In which case, yes, the odds are against them.In short - your mathematics is good, but it doesn't go nearly far enough in simulating the system as outlined in the rules.&nbsp; It skews the situation against the PCs at every possible juncture because it forces them to act like klutzes; and thus the result is unsurprising.&nbsp; You're missing modifiers (at the other extreme end - but you've taken the lowest extreme, so I'll take the highest to illustrate the possible range) of: +4 skill; +8 aid another; easy checks only giving a DC 5 points lower, a MASSIVE difference of 17 points by simply making optimum choices.My belief, then, is that you have failed to demonstrate (yet) that the system is broken.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Morrus, post: 4283048, member: 1"] 1) You can use it for any skill check; i'ts thus an integral part of the number-crunching. Not incoprprating it into your model doesn't provide a result which accurately reflects 4E D&D, merely one which reflects a similar system you've based on it. 2) In addition, there's nothing to stop PCs choosing "easy" for every single check. 3) Additional modifiers will mean that the highest skill score will often exceed 9. Racial bonuses to both the ability score and the skill itself; bonuses granted to other characters; basic equipment (thieves tools, climbing kit, all of which add 2). What you've done is identify one disadvantaged strategy for the PCs, assuming they do nothing to help themselves. In which case, yes, the odds are against them. In short - your mathematics is good, but it doesn't go nearly far enough in simulating the system as outlined in the rules. It skews the situation against the PCs at every possible juncture because it forces them to act like klutzes; and thus the result is unsurprising. You're missing modifiers (at the other extreme end - but you've taken the lowest extreme, so I'll take the highest to illustrate the possible range) of: +4 skill; +8 aid another; easy checks only giving a DC 5 points lower, a MASSIVE difference of 17 points by simply making optimum choices. My belief, then, is that you have failed to demonstrate (yet) that the system is broken. [/QUOTE]

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