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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 4283062" data-attributes="member: 42582">This is true - the mathematics is accurate. But the mathematics is assuming certain percentage chances of success on skill rolls. To me, this gives rise to the question - what are the expectations about modifiers to the skill checks? In particular, is there something that the critics of skill challenges in this thread are missing?I'd add to this: I was able to work out the odds of success for comlexity 1 challenges using my memory of the high school maths (probability trees) that I learned 20 years ago. It took me about 20 minutes. Presumably some of the WoTC designers can also do high school maths and had 20 minutes to spare, or even more, to look into the issue.So the real question becomes - what are we missing about either DCs or skill bonuses?Cadfan, I agree entirely - these are the questions that need to be asked and addressed.As per my earlier post, to get around a 75% chance of success on a complexity 1 challenge you need an 80% chance of success on each check, ie, any roll of 5+ on d20 is a success. Given that the DCs range from 20 (at level 1) to 34 (at level 30) this requires a bonus of +15 to +29, or around +14 after level adjustments.Subtract 5 for training and 4 for stat - this means that another +5 is needed. Where is that going to come from? Either you can drop the DCs by 5, as Harr, Lost Soul and some others are advocating, or you can introduce some circumstance modifiers, or you can introduce a bit of Aiding Another (gives up to +8 according to the relevant sections of both the DMG and the PHB), or you can introduce some racial bonuses (+2) and Skill Focus feats (+3), or you can introduce some auto-successes to help even the odds. Magic items will also help, obviously.What I would like to hear is a bit more about what techniques are actually being used in play to make skill challenges work.Agreed.</blockquote>

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