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<blockquote data-quote="Tervin" data-source="post: 4283257" data-attributes="member: 66491">If you use any of the tools made by people in this thread you will note that the problem is only partly with challenges seeming to be too difficult if run like in the examples offered in the rules. Even if you fix that (which is easy enough) you have another problem left, which can't be shrugged off so easily. A complexity 5 challenge is supposed to give 5 times as much XP as a complexity 1 challenge. However, if you use managable difficulty levels a complexity 5 challenge will actually end up quite a bit easier than a complexity 1 challenge. This is not a problem that has to do with us reading the difficulties wrong or forgetting about skill bonuses. It is a problem of bad choice of math in the underlying system. I will still try to run the game with these systems, but knowing that the system is flawed, I will put focus on player creativity being needed to get through the challenges. That way complex challenges need a lot more creativity, and I don't feel so bad about giving out XP. And yes, that is something that the DMG section on skill challenges could have included - but it didn't. As it is it feels like the DM needs to have all the math info from this thread and test out where to put DCs beforehand in order to get a satisfying experience. I like 4th Edition a lot, but that doesn't mean I can't see flaws in it. For some reason it seems all good RPGs have to have one or two subsystems using really bad math for simulations. (Storyteller comes to mind...)</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Tervin, post: 4283257, member: 66491"] If you use any of the tools made by people in this thread you will note that the problem is only partly with challenges seeming to be too difficult if run like in the examples offered in the rules. Even if you fix that (which is easy enough) you have another problem left, which can't be shrugged off so easily. A complexity 5 challenge is supposed to give 5 times as much XP as a complexity 1 challenge. However, if you use managable difficulty levels a complexity 5 challenge will actually end up quite a bit easier than a complexity 1 challenge. This is not a problem that has to do with us reading the difficulties wrong or forgetting about skill bonuses. It is a problem of bad choice of math in the underlying system. I will still try to run the game with these systems, but knowing that the system is flawed, I will put focus on player creativity being needed to get through the challenges. That way complex challenges need a lot more creativity, and I don't feel so bad about giving out XP. And yes, that is something that the DMG section on skill challenges could have included - but it didn't. As it is it feels like the DM needs to have all the math info from this thread and test out where to put DCs beforehand in order to get a satisfying experience. I like 4th Edition a lot, but that doesn't mean I can't see flaws in it. For some reason it seems all good RPGs have to have one or two subsystems using really bad math for simulations. (Storyteller comes to mind...) [/QUOTE]

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