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<blockquote data-quote="Ulthwithian" data-source="post: 4283320" data-attributes="member: 60612">Aegir: But it doesn't.&nbsp; If you see my previous post regarding this, you'll note that 'around 11+ to succeed' seems to be the reigning success paradigm in 4E.&nbsp; As such, that puts the DC15 check right aroung the correct mark for an attack.&nbsp; Note that the AC modifier is +2, the same as the normal weapon proficiency bonus.&nbsp; In that vein, if you have a trained skill and either a +4 bonus from your ability or a +2 bonus from ability and a +2 bonus from race (which seems to be the norm), you get a +9 on your skill check.&nbsp; That means that the average DC for a skill check at 1st level should be 20, not 15.Table of normal modifiers:Ability: Assume +3Proficiency (combat only): +2Trained (skill only): +5If you assume an 11+ to succeed is the base, that means that the norm to succeed on a non-AC, non-skill check should be about a 14, an AC attack should be 16, and a skill check should be 19.&nbsp; These are all within 10% of the actual numbers suggested (and if you assume a +4 modifier, it actually is correct).Therefore, I believe that the only logical conclusion is that the table is correct.&nbsp; Some other part might be missing, though.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ulthwithian, post: 4283320, member: 60612"] Aegir: But it doesn't. If you see my previous post regarding this, you'll note that 'around 11+ to succeed' seems to be the reigning success paradigm in 4E. As such, that puts the DC15 check right aroung the correct mark for an attack. Note that the AC modifier is +2, the same as the normal weapon proficiency bonus. In that vein, if you have a trained skill and either a +4 bonus from your ability or a +2 bonus from ability and a +2 bonus from race (which seems to be the norm), you get a +9 on your skill check. That means that the average DC for a skill check at 1st level should be 20, not 15. Table of normal modifiers: Ability: Assume +3 Proficiency (combat only): +2 Trained (skill only): +5 If you assume an 11+ to succeed is the base, that means that the norm to succeed on a non-AC, non-skill check should be about a 14, an AC attack should be 16, and a skill check should be 19. These are all within 10% of the actual numbers suggested (and if you assume a +4 modifier, it actually is correct). Therefore, I believe that the only logical conclusion is that the table is correct. Some other part might be missing, though. [/QUOTE]

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