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<blockquote data-quote="Spatula" data-source="post: 4285008" data-attributes="member: 2198">If you're interested in a different experiment, all the tools needed to do so are available in this thread.The OP's scenario is actually highly favorable in that it assumes each PC has an optimal skill bonus to use vs the average DC.&nbsp; &quot;Unusual&quot; skill uses are automatically at the hardest DC - 25 at 1st level - and may (or may not, confusing text) only be used once.&nbsp; Sure there could be some extra +2's flying around.&nbsp; There can also be -2's (the 'DM's best friend' rule).&nbsp; It's not presented as being necessary to group success.You can go ahead and assume the party is ultra-optimized with magic items, skill-related utility powers, and skill focus feats, but only the feat is an option at 1st level.&nbsp; And the situation looks very bad for 1st level PCs.You can assume that 4 group members aid another to let the skill monkey succeed.&nbsp; Aside from this not really working with smaller parties, I'm with Wulf in that that would be a really crappy design.&nbsp; It's boring for those aiding, it's tedious, and it doesn't meet the designers' stated goals for skill challenges - a goal that I very much support.Anyway, I imagine that WotC will clarify that the +5 DC shouldn't be used for challenges, publish some errata, maybe fix the web enhancement for KotS, and call it good.&nbsp; That'll work for me, but DMs should still be aware of the tipping point with the higher complexity challenges.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Spatula, post: 4285008, member: 2198"] If you're interested in a different experiment, all the tools needed to do so are available in this thread. The OP's scenario is actually highly favorable in that it assumes each PC has an optimal skill bonus to use vs the average DC. "Unusual" skill uses are automatically at the hardest DC - 25 at 1st level - and may (or may not, confusing text) only be used once. Sure there could be some extra +2's flying around. There can also be -2's (the 'DM's best friend' rule). It's not presented as being necessary to group success. You can go ahead and assume the party is ultra-optimized with magic items, skill-related utility powers, and skill focus feats, but only the feat is an option at 1st level. And the situation looks very bad for 1st level PCs. You can assume that 4 group members aid another to let the skill monkey succeed. Aside from this not really working with smaller parties, I'm with Wulf in that that would be a really crappy design. It's boring for those aiding, it's tedious, and it doesn't meet the designers' stated goals for skill challenges - a goal that I [i]very[/i] much support. Anyway, I imagine that WotC will clarify that the +5 DC shouldn't be used for challenges, publish some errata, maybe fix the web enhancement for KotS, and call it good. That'll work for me, but DMs should still be aware of the tipping point with the higher complexity challenges. [/QUOTE]

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