Shrink

[d12]

This came up in the game last night - I checked the errata and clrifications and counldn't find anything.

Party stumbles across a fire giant and the party sorceror casts shrink. The spell says something like "Save: Fortitude Negates (object)." One player argued that this meant that objects get saves vs this spell and creatures do not. I read the text several time and couldn't come up with anything better, so the fire giant shrunk a little.

So, my question is "Do creatures receive a save vs. shrink?"

Now this spell didn't make or break the battle, but has anyone else come across this little bit of confusion? Sorry if I'm missing something obvious.

 

[AuraSeer]

One player argued that this meant that objects get saves vs this spell and creatures do not.

That player is smoking crack. The giant does get a save.

The word (object) is just there to remind you that unattended, nonmagical objects do not get a saving throw. It does not in any way affect the saving throw applied to creatures.

 

[mikebr99]

SRD:

Shrink Item
Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Touch
Target: One touched object of up to 2 cu. ft./level
Duration: 1 day/level (see text)
Saving Throw: Will negates (object)
Spell Resistance: Yes (object)
The character is able to shrink one nonmagical item (if it is within the size limit) to one-twelfth of its normal size in each
dimension (to about 1/2,000th the original volume and mass). Optionally, the character can also change its now-shrunken
composition to a clothlike one. Objects changed by a shrink item spell can be returned to normal composition and size merely
by tossing them onto any solid surface or by a word of command from the original caster. Restoring the shrunken object to its
normal size and composition ends the spell.
If shrink item is made permanent (see the permanency spell), the affected object can be shrunk and expanded an indefinite
number of times, but only by the original caster.

Is this the spell in question?

 

[d12]

sorry

Apologies - I meant REDUCE. (Maybe it was called Shrink in 2nd ed). Okay - its REDUCE we're talking about here.

 

[mikebr99]

Re: sorry

Apologies - I meant REDUCE. (Maybe it was called Shrink in 2nd ed). Okay - its REDUCE we're talking about here.

Ahh...

Yes, most definitely... a creature who doesn't want to be reduced, gets a Fort save.

 

[d12]

thanks everyone!

 

[Artoomis]

For reference:

(Object): The spell can be cast on objects, which receive saving throws only if they are magical or if they are attended (held, worn, grasped, etc.) by a creature resisting the spell, in which case the object gets the creature's saving throw bonus unless its own bonus is greater. (This notation does not mean that a spell can only be cast on objects. Some spells of this sort can be cast on creatures or objects.) A magic item's saving throw bonuses are each equal to 2 + one-half its caster level.

This does not mean that only attended objects get a save. It means that you need to read the text to see if character targtes do not get a save - they would unless it states otherwise.

In the case of Reduce, it should be obvious that an unwilling target gets a save, just as with Enlarge. It also should be obvious that when using Enlarge on an attended object, it would get a save, even though Enlarge is noted as having a Fort Save, not a Fort Save (Object).