Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Arkhandus" data-source="post: 2622327" data-attributes="member: 13966">Baleful Polymorph or Phantasmal Killer can be nasty.  A 9th-level transmuter wizard nearly defeated a juvenile green dragon in one of my campaigns merely by casting Baleful Polymorph; the dragon made its Will save and so became an iguana with dragon-brains, and one of its minions dispelled the Baleful Polymorph after that, but otherwise it would've been a goner.  The transmuter still had plenty of Phantasmal Killers prepared though, and began trying those; the dragon likely would've died after a few rounds of rolling saves against that death spell, because one save would likely come up short out of all of those.  Ice Storm can be pretty effective too, though not quite as good for slaying a single tough foe.27 damage from a combination Quickened MM and Maximized MM is nothing.  A 9th-level wizard can easily cast a single Empowered Fireball and deal 9d6+50% (generally 42+) damage to a large area, at the cost of one spell slot only, and few enemy mages will make the save for half damage (and even those that do, will typically have around 20-38 HP unless they have really frickin' high Constitution, if of similar level, and a lower level mage may as well not care whether or not he makes the save, because he'll probably still perish).  An enemy rogue might make the save; generally DC 17 or 18 probably, and a rogue of similar level probably has +9 or +10 on Reflex saves.  A Heightened Fireball may be better against rogues (DC 20 or thereabouts).  But then, against a rogue, that's what a Phantasmal Killer is for; pood sod with crud for Fort and Will saves......A Maximized Acid Arrow is also quite effective against an enemy mage.  Magic Missile is most certainly not overpowered at middle and upper levels.  Scorching Ray or Acid Arrow will likely deal more damage then, with or without metamagic.  Heck, a Maximized + Enlarged Burning Hands, combined with a Quickened + Enlarged Burning Hands, could deal 30+ damage to a swath of enemies nearby, as opposed to that magic missile combo dealing 27 damage to one enemy from a distance.  The BH combo will wipe out a fair number of mooks, the MM combo will somewhat maim a single tougher enemy or slightly maim a couple of mooks.A 9th-level barbarian.....lessee.  Half-orc, 22 Str (18 +2 racial +2 from levels 4 & 8), Power Attack, Weapon Focus, etc.  Likely a +3 greataxe lets say.  Raging.  Attacks at +21/+16 without PA, deals 1d12+15 damage per hit.  9th-level rogue: halfling, 22 Dex, Dodge and Expertise feats.  +3 studded leather let's assume.  AC 23/24, 28/29 max.  Even with full Expertise and Dodge going, the rogue still gets hit by the barbarian's 1st attack most rounds, and sometimes the 2nd attack.  Barbarian power attacks for -2/+4, still hits quite often.  Rogue takes 20-31 (avg 26) damage most rounds, sometimes 40-62 (if hit twice).  Rogue has 39 HP maybe, 57 HP if unusually tough for his archetype.  Dies on round 2 or 3, or round 1 if barbarian crits, or round 1 if barbarian hits with both attacks and rolls well on damage for one.  Winner: Average (well, marginally min-maxed) barbarian, on round 1, 2, or 3, against rather capable and well-outfitted rogue.  The rogue might have another +1 to +3 AC from magic items if he's lucky, in which case he's just more likely to die on round 3 or 4.  The barbarian would kill a mage instantly or nearly so.  The rogue hardly fares much better.I don't see a problem with the mage dealing 27 damage per round at the expense of a 4th-level and 5th-level slot each time using metamagicked Magic Missiles.  Even less so with non-enhanced Magic Missiles.  Nor dealing 42 damage per round with a single 5th-level slot each time (of which, the 9th-level mage will only have 1 or 2, maybe 3 at best).</blockquote>

Verification