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Message: <blockquote data-quote="mkill" data-source="post: 4903745" data-attributes="member: 55985">Ok, I'm trying to follow you here.You state "this thread is not about whether the Ranger is overpowered". Then you suggest a nerf to the Ranger. Just to be clear: You assume that the Ranger is overpowered and you try to fix it?Well, just to be clear where I stand, I think you are wrong. I've seen the Ranger in play, I've seen other strikers like Warlocks, Sorcerers and Barbarians in play, and the Ranger is not overpowered. Ok, you don't want to discuss that, and so I don't want to change your opinion, but at least you should state clearly why you try to change the ranger and what the perceived problems are. Don't say "his damage output", because that is his job as a striker.So, what do you change by removing the TWF and Archer abilities? For the archer, well, he loses a mediocre feat. Defensive mobility is not useless, but if I would build an archery ranger I wouldn't bother to pick it up, there are too many good alternatives now.As for the melee ranger: Well, guess what, the real power source of the ranger, Twin Strike, is still there. At higher levels, your damage output comes from the bonuses you pile on your Twin Strike damage, not the damage itself. It really doesn't matter that much which damage die your off-hand weapon has. Actually, as a player I'd be tempted to rub it in and go for Daggermaster as Prestige Class (ah, damn, Paragon Path / Whatever). And watch the DM cry as I pile 3 extra attacks on every crit.Or, I just spend a feat on a Double Sword. Solves the off-hand weapon problem nicely too, and helps with my always low AC. And I'll need it, because the real nerf that you did is by removing Toughness from the TWF Ranger. That hurts hurts hurts.Basicly, you removed all other options for TWF Rangers and forced 3 feats as first picks: Toughness, Weapon Proficiency: Double Sword and probably Armor Proficiency: Chain Mail. Well, it's harder to survive at low level with the changes, but at Paragon at the latest you wouldn't feel much change and DPR should be at 95 to 100%.Still, why did you try to fix something that's not broken? Yes, there are a few stupidly good ranger builds, but they are broken not because of the base class, but because of the stuff you pile on. Better fix Stormwarden, or Two-Weapon-Rend, that's where the brokenness is. And to be fair, many of the things that break the Ranger can be used to break the Avenger and the Tempest Fighter too, and even the Sorcerer if you want.</blockquote>

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