Sidekick PCs (or, mixed-level groups)

[77IM]

This is a mechanic for having playable groups of PCs with VERY different levels. (Shamelessly stolen from City of Heroes.) Please let me know what you think!

-- 77IM



Overview

1. If your character's level is much lower than the rest of the party, you get a bonus to hit points, attacks, defenses, and skills, so that you can still participate meaningfully.
2. But you don't get any bonus abilities, powers, feats, or magic items, so you're still not as good as someone who earned their levels.

Sidekick PCs
If the party members are all within 1-2 levels of each other, no sidekicking is needed. But if some of the PCs are way lower level, they become "sidekicks" of the higher level characters.

Your ''sidekick level'' is always equal to the lowest-level non-sidekick PC in the group.

Traits Calculated Using Your Sidekick Level:

• Hit Points
• Attack Bonus
• Skill Bonus
• Defenses
• Any feature or power that gets better with level (for example, rogue's Sneak Attack gains more damage at 11th level)

Traits Calculated Using Your Real Actual Level:

• Ability Scores
• Number and selection of powers
• Number and selection of feats
• Paragon path features and Epic destiny features (you don't get these at all until the appropriate level)
• Equipment and magical items (you don't get free magic items just for being a sidekick, but you can beg for them)

XP Increase (Optional)
If the reason you are a sidekick is because you have started a new character, then so long as you are sidekicked you earn double XP. This allows you to catch up with the rest of the group in a reasonable amount of time. (This rule is optional and may not be appropriate for all groups.)

When to Use the Sidekick Rules

1. Starting a new character at 1st level makes it a lot easier to learn the game. Especially at high levels; having to suddenly learn how 15 levels' worth of powers and magic items work is kind of tricky. Increasing numeric quantities (attack bonus, HP, etc.) does not make the game any more complicated for the new character.
2. Giving out free levels and magic items might make players who worked hard (and risked their characters' lives) to earn their levels feel cheated. The sidekicked character is still clearly weaker than the normal characters (due to having fewer powers, worse powers, and not as many bonuses from ability scores and magic items and feats) and still needs to earn XP to be as cool as the normal characters.
3. If a low-level character is temporarily joining the group, for role-playing reasons you may want them to still seem lower level. But, you want their bonuses to be high enough for them to contribute, and their defenses good enough for them to not require babysitting. A sidekicked character retains the low-level feel of having few powers and items.

 

[Stalker0]

My question is...what are you looking for out of this mechanic?

To me it seems like you are trying to make lower level character closer to higher level ones...so why not just have everyone at the same level?


Personally, my favorite sidekick mechanic of all time comes from the Buffy RPG. In that, the slayer is the combat machine, but the "sidekicks" get more drama points. They are points that you can spend to have the plot move more towards your way, or to make your character extremely lucky.

I personally love this idea because it creates balance based on player desires. Some players want to kick butt. Others want to be a bigger part of the story. This mechanic allows both.

 

[77IM]

Obviously, keeping everyone the same level is the easiest and most balanced solution. But there are times when you might not want this. I tried list some in the final section, "When to Use the Sidekick Rules."

-- 77IM

 

[Daniel D. Fox]

This stinks of MMOG.

Not a fan of adjusting abilities in order to bring them to the same level as other PCs. Technically, this should not be too much of a problem in a group that plays together regularly, since the EXP charts are standardized across all classes.

 

[77IM]

This stinks of MMOG.

Because I stole it from CoH?

Not a fan of adjusting abilities in order to bring them to the same level as other PCs. Technically, this should not be too much of a problem in a group that plays together regularly, since the EXP charts are standardized across all classes.

Yup. It's only an issue when adding a new player or when an existing player decides they are tired of their character and want to start a new one.

I don't know about the people you game with, but I have a few players that really aren't interested in the rules much. If I handed them a 15th-level character sheet, with all the powers and feats and magic items of a 15th-level character, their eyes would glaze over and every single time it was their combat turn they'd be asking me (or one of the rules-happy players) how their own powers worked. It would get old fast.

Letting people start with 1st-level characters solves that problem: they only need to understand a few abilities at first, and as they level up and add new powers, they get some time to digest them. But, a 1st-level character in a 15th-level group is a) totally useless because he can't hit squat and b) way too squishy because he has low defenses and relatively few hit points. The Sidekick rule addresses that, by artificially inflating the quantitative traits.

Furthermore, I want my players to feel like they've earned their levels and treasures. (I'm trying to run a West Marches game, and a feeling of accomplishment is a powerful motivator.) If a new player joins, or someone gets a new character, I don't want to just hand them the sort of XP and items that the rest of the group had to fight monsters for.

Most groups won't have these sorts of issues. But for a group that does, do these rules work to solve the issues?

-- 77IM

 

[Syrsuro]

I understand the logic behind this - in theory.

I just have trouble imagining when it might be useful.

In a home group the players will either be so close in level as to make it unnecessary (and if they are not, such as when a new player joins the group, as a DM I would probably just raise the level of the outlier by fiat).

In an RPGA pickup group, this would not be permissable.

In any other form of pickup group, players can bring whatever character to the table they wish, and thus they could just level themselves up to whatever level is appropriate.

It would only apply if you had pickup groups made up of pre-existing characters that had to conform to ongoing level restrictions outside of that pickup group. Or if you had players that objected to the DM leveling up new players to be compatible with an existing group (jealousy? misplaced simulationism? whatever....

Not impossible that a large gaming group or other setup might need rules like this, but I just don't see it happening often.

Edit: And if players object to characters of higher than first level joining the group, just ask them the following: "Are you guys the only Nth level characters in the world? (Assuming "No") So why wouldn't a character of your level want to join your group, and why would you refuse to allow a character of your own level to join your group?" New characters do not need to start at 1st level simply because the rest of the group started there - its not about 'fairness', its about 'fun'. And if you think there is something wrong with that, imho I'd take a look at your assumptions and ask why.

Carl

 

[mlangsdorf]

He explained why he wants to start some new PCs at 1st level - to simplify the learning curve for the players. A new player can join the group and participate in paragon level adventures without having to learn 4 Encounter Powers, 3 Daily Powers, and 2+ Magic item powers. That's a useful thing, especially if there are people in the group who can barely learn all the abilities of a 1st level character in 4 sessions of play.

It looks like a fair solution to me. It's annoying that this is a problem we have to solve, but that's an issue with the players and not the rules.

 

[Syrsuro]

He explained why he wants to start some new PCs at 1st level - to simplify the learning curve for the players. A new player can join the group and participate in paragon level adventures without having to learn 4 Encounter Powers, 3 Daily Powers, and 2+ Magic item powers. That's a useful thing, especially if there are people in the group who can barely learn all the abilities of a 1st level character in 4 sessions of play.

It looks like a fair solution to me. It's annoying that this is a problem we have to solve, but that's an issue with the players and not the rules.

I disagree that it's annoying. The alternative is for characters at high levels to not have any abilities that are more complex or interesting than those at 1st level.

I'm not sure he wouldn't be better off leveling the character up anyway. But I suppose if he has players that are that overwhelmed by too many options it might make sense. But a leveled character has the option to pick a few powers he understands and stick to those, while a sidekick character doesn't have the option - he only has those few powers and furthermore is denied the opportunity to learn about playing a highlevel besides, which means the problem never goes away.

Unless the person was only going to play for that one session I think he still be better off with a full level character, even if that characters powers were simplified to make it easier to handle.

Carl

 

[fissionessence]

But a leveled character has the option to pick a few powers he understands and stick to those, while a sidekick character doesn't have the option - he only has those few powers and furthermore is denied the opportunity to learn about playing a highlevel besides, which means the problem never goes away.

It would go away, because the 1st-level character's xp would go up quickly and he or should would catch up relatively fast; hopefully the player's pace of learning would be able to keep up. Note that an equal share of XP to a lower-level character is worth much much more than to the other party members.

I personally like this system a lot. I'm also an on-and-off CoX player, so I may be biased I'm not sure when I'd use it, though. I was thinking that adding characters or replacing dead ones would result in me just allowing the new character to be [party level - 1] to start. However, I do have one player who can't seem to grasp all of his powers and the combat rules, so perhaps if he were to replace a character, or else a new player unfamiliar with the rules were to join, I'd ask them to start at level 1 with this system in place.

~

 

[That One Guy]

It works well for what you're going for. I think it could be a fun variant for teaching a player a new class. Say a PC wants to start a new character of a different class... I think a speed leveling of the new class would help them learn that class. IMO, 4e is easier to learn through play than just reading so they could learn what works well and what does not.