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<blockquote data-quote="steeldragons" data-source="post: 8246483" data-attributes="member: 92511"><p>So, I'm wondering what people think about defining different classes/casters by their spells moreso than, or I suppose "within/in addition to," individual spell lists.</p><p></p><p>What am I talking about, you say? You all recall (or know about) "spell spheres" for clerics in 2e...became "domains" in 3x, "domain spells" in 5e. Anywho, in the 2e spell spheres, there was a category called "All." The spells that were really basic "magic stuff all clerics [would naturally/automatically be able to] do."</p><p></p><p>So, I'm thinking...why did Mages/Wizards never get those? I mean, in the early early dawn of the game, there was the "Every magic-user starts with<em> Read Magic</em>" thing. But that was only and ever it. 1e UA introduced "cantrips" and they've stuck around. Sure. But things that are kind of treated as ubiquitous for mages, "<em>Magic Missile, Sleep, Detect Magi</em>c, etc..." were still just individual spells that needed to be chosen[/found/learned]. </p><p></p><p>There has always been SOME of this through thematically connected spells, (nearly always damage dealing): <em>Burning Hands</em> to <em>Scorching Ray</em> to <em>Fireball</em> to <em>Wall of Fire</em>, etc... But again, even these, not really "connected" and very hit or miss -cold/ice doesn't have anything similar, lightning damage is probably most spotty, forget about things like sonic or psychic damage.</p><p></p><p>Druids, Illusionists (necromancers, etc...), and other caster classes over editions have had similar "this is something practically every druid will take/prepare" but they've never been codified beyond "always in the spell list for each edition."</p><p></p><p>So, long story long, what I'm thinking/talking about is taking all of this together and, at least as far as I'm begun in my homebrew, coming up with a few "signature" spells that are definitive for the class...that have multiple different spells, increasing in power, throughout the Class' spell list.</p><p></p><p>Example: Cleric</p><p>1st level spells: Cure Wounds I ("Light wounds"), Divine Favor I (Bless), Light.</p><p>2nd level spells: Cure Condition I (blindeness, deafness, stun, minor poisons, mundane disease), Protective Prayer I (Protection from Evil meets Sanctuary?)</p><p>3rd level spells: Cure Wounds II (moderate wounds), Divine Favor II (Prayer), Light II (Daylight)</p><p>4th level spells: Cure Condition II (paralysis, magical disease, major poison, etc...), Protective Prayer II (Magic/Abjuring Circle)</p><p></p><p>And, like, every cleric have access to these spells... All of the time. Then, their spell slots can be used for these or for other, more specific spells they choose to prepare/pray for.</p><p></p><p>Example: Mage/Wizard</p><p>1st level spells: Magic Bolt I (magic missile), Shield I, Arcane Sense I (Detect Magic).</p><p>2nd level spells: Magic Storm I (10' diameter burst of elemental damage), Arcane Sight I (Detect Illusions, See Invisibility)</p><p>3rd level spells: Magic Bolt II (choose fire, ice, lightning, thunder), Shield II (a 10' radius force globe), Arcane Sense II (more powerful/exacting, maybe add some identify/legend lore)</p><p>4th level spells: Magic Storm II (expand damage types, increase burst radius ), Arcane Sight II (See Ethereal, Shapeshifted creatures, etc...)</p><p>...and so on. </p><p></p><p>This is stuff that every mage would know. You learn the "#1" versions of things, and the rest are just you increasing your mastery and understanding to give what you already know more or similar effects, "stretching" the magic you know to be more useful.</p><p></p><p>Or maybe it is better presented as an individual package? Like, a feat maybe? Here's the suite of thematic powers if you want to be an "Ice Witch" or a "Master Diviner" or what have you.</p><p></p><p>Are people getting it? Like it? Not like it? Or am I just rambling? It is entirely possible this is completely pointless/worthless idea that doesn't really change anything and I'm just rambling.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="steeldragons, post: 8246483, member: 92511"] So, I'm wondering what people think about defining different classes/casters by their spells moreso than, or I suppose "within/in addition to," individual spell lists. What am I talking about, you say? You all recall (or know about) "spell spheres" for clerics in 2e...became "domains" in 3x, "domain spells" in 5e. Anywho, in the 2e spell spheres, there was a category called "All." The spells that were really basic "magic stuff all clerics [would naturally/automatically be able to] do." So, I'm thinking...why did Mages/Wizards never get those? I mean, in the early early dawn of the game, there was the "Every magic-user starts with[I] Read Magic[/I]" thing. But that was only and ever it. 1e UA introduced "cantrips" and they've stuck around. Sure. But things that are kind of treated as ubiquitous for mages, "[I]Magic Missile, Sleep, Detect Magi[/I]c, etc..." were still just individual spells that needed to be chosen[/found/learned]. There has always been SOME of this through thematically connected spells, (nearly always damage dealing): [I]Burning Hands[/I] to [I]Scorching Ray[/I] to [I]Fireball[/I] to [I]Wall of Fire[/I], etc... But again, even these, not really "connected" and very hit or miss -cold/ice doesn't have anything similar, lightning damage is probably most spotty, forget about things like sonic or psychic damage. Druids, Illusionists (necromancers, etc...), and other caster classes over editions have had similar "this is something practically every druid will take/prepare" but they've never been codified beyond "always in the spell list for each edition." So, long story long, what I'm thinking/talking about is taking all of this together and, at least as far as I'm begun in my homebrew, coming up with a few "signature" spells that are definitive for the class...that have multiple different spells, increasing in power, throughout the Class' spell list. Example: Cleric 1st level spells: Cure Wounds I ("Light wounds"), Divine Favor I (Bless), Light. 2nd level spells: Cure Condition I (blindeness, deafness, stun, minor poisons, mundane disease), Protective Prayer I (Protection from Evil meets Sanctuary?) 3rd level spells: Cure Wounds II (moderate wounds), Divine Favor II (Prayer), Light II (Daylight) 4th level spells: Cure Condition II (paralysis, magical disease, major poison, etc...), Protective Prayer II (Magic/Abjuring Circle) And, like, every cleric have access to these spells... All of the time. Then, their spell slots can be used for these or for other, more specific spells they choose to prepare/pray for. Example: Mage/Wizard 1st level spells: Magic Bolt I (magic missile), Shield I, Arcane Sense I (Detect Magic). 2nd level spells: Magic Storm I (10' diameter burst of elemental damage), Arcane Sight I (Detect Illusions, See Invisibility) 3rd level spells: Magic Bolt II (choose fire, ice, lightning, thunder), Shield II (a 10' radius force globe), Arcane Sense II (more powerful/exacting, maybe add some identify/legend lore) 4th level spells: Magic Storm II (expand damage types, increase burst radius ), Arcane Sight II (See Ethereal, Shapeshifted creatures, etc...) ...and so on. This is stuff that every mage would know. You learn the "#1" versions of things, and the rest are just you increasing your mastery and understanding to give what you already know more or similar effects, "stretching" the magic you know to be more useful. Or maybe it is better presented as an individual package? Like, a feat maybe? Here's the suite of thematic powers if you want to be an "Ice Witch" or a "Master Diviner" or what have you. Are people getting it? Like it? Not like it? Or am I just rambling? It is entirely possible this is completely pointless/worthless idea that doesn't really change anything and I'm just rambling. [/QUOTE]
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