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<blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 1905099" data-attributes="member: 2011">You will not convince Scion that he is wrong Thanee.After reading quite a few of his posts, I have come to the conclusion that he is nearly incapable of ever admitting that he is wrong.&quot;A glamer spell changes a subject's sensory qualities, making it look, feel, taste, smell, or sound like something else, or even seem to disappear&quot;The word &quot;seem&quot; in this case means &quot;has the appearance of&quot; or &quot;looks like&quot;. It does not mean &quot;may or may not be that way based on observer&quot;.The word &quot;subject&quot; in this case means &quot;the target or area of the spell&quot;. It does not mean &quot;any observer&quot;.The target of the spell ACTUALLY looks, feels, tastes, smells, or sounds the way the glamer states. The sensory qualities of that target ACTUALLY change. Period.That sensory quality is totally real to all observers. An invisible guy is invisible to ALL observers unless they have a magical (i.e. special ability, spell, or supernatural power) to penetrate that invisibility. Same for Silence. Same for Seeming. Same for Disguise Self. Same for Veil. Same for Zone of Silence.For a Glamer, only magic can penetrate it (i.e. an observer no longer perceives it) for the sensory quality being affected . There are no saving throws (like some other illusions such as figments) to perceive a difference. Either the spell is up for everyone, or it is not. There may be a save for it to not affect someone when cast, but once cast and up, it affects everyone who perceives it.And changing a sensory quality can lower it as well as raise it or modify it in some other manner.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="KarinsDad, post: 1905099, member: 2011"] You will not convince Scion that he is wrong Thanee. After reading quite a few of his posts, I have come to the conclusion that he is nearly incapable of ever admitting that he is wrong. "A glamer spell changes a subject's sensory qualities, making it look, feel, taste, smell, or sound like something else, or even seem to disappear" The word "seem" in this case means "has the appearance of" or "looks like". It does not mean "may or may not be that way based on observer". The word "subject" in this case means "the target or area of the spell". It does not mean "any observer". The target of the spell ACTUALLY looks, feels, tastes, smells, or sounds the way the glamer states. The sensory qualities of that target ACTUALLY change. Period. That sensory quality is totally real to all observers. An invisible guy is invisible to ALL observers unless they have a magical (i.e. special ability, spell, or supernatural power) to penetrate that invisibility. Same for Silence. Same for Seeming. Same for Disguise Self. Same for Veil. Same for Zone of Silence. For a Glamer, only magic can penetrate it (i.e. an observer no longer perceives it) for the sensory quality being affected . There are no saving throws (like some other illusions such as figments) to perceive a difference. Either the spell is up for everyone, or it is not. There may be a save for it to not affect someone when cast, but once cast and up, it affects everyone who perceives it. And changing a sensory quality can lower it as well as raise it or modify it in some other manner. [/QUOTE]

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