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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Black Omega" data-source="post: 1226879" data-attributes="member: 79">Well, contintal longbows were usually more around 4 feet.  According the source like the Mary Rose wreck, 5 and 6 feet   Om the other hand, if you are going to suggest the welsh bow is far better than the english longbow, I'll have to ask for your source.Charles Oman (History of the Art of Warfare in the Middle Ages) and John E Morris (Welsh Wars of  Edward I) defintely connect the two, with no difference in strength commented on.  Though this is difficult to measure since there are no examples of the welsh bow left.Other scholars (Heath, Munksgaard) have even pounced on a mis translation by Morris (later used by Oman) and made the case the English longbow's design probably was not even based on the Welsh bow.  Not sure I'd go this far though.We're not even really disgreeing here.  Practice range and extreme range are not the same as effective range, especially with the heavy bodkin arrows not used in practice.  Hardy's 'Longbow: A Social and Military History' places to range of the bodkin arrow at 250 yards, with the effective range a little less.I suspect you place a little more faith in this translating strictly to modern weights and measures than I do.  The most optimistic assessements of surviving longbows place the draw weight at 100-150.  Count M. Mildmay Stayner, Recorder of the British Long Bow Society, put it at a maximum of 90-110 pounds.  Mr. W.F. Paterson, Chairman of the Society of Archer-Antiquaries, placed it even a little lower.Interestingly, this is not even dealing with heartwood bows.  all surviving examples of the longbow are selfbows made from a mix of sapwood and heartwood, sapwood for spring, heartwood for the inside of the curve because it resisted compression better. The Mongol's used two types of bow.  the smaller horse bow had a maximum range of 500 yards but the arrow was obviously lighter and less dangerous.  The heavier bow was used while standing still on horseback, or more likely dismounted.  It's effectiveness against the heavily armored knights was proven more than once.  At Wahlstadt they annihilated a force of Knights Templer to the man.So to answer the previous question, yes the Mongols encountered a bow that could match the longbow.</blockquote>

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