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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Al" data-source="post: 388460" data-attributes="member: 2486">mroberon1972: That's okay.  I understand that different campaign worlds have different levels of magic (indeed, my campaign worlds tend to have above-average levels of magic-users), but I tend to argue using standards when on the boards.  It stops silly arguments about the exact numbers (though, of course, part of my argument is about exact numbers...hohum <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> ) Well, I believe some else suggested this, not you.  However, on the other hand, in order to crank out the breastplates, he'll need to be at level 11 or so.  This means that such a caster is unavailable to any settlement short of a large city: in essence, they are very rare!  Furthermore, a mage of this level can probably find himself employed far more lucratively: either creating *magical* items (which are distributed to a very narrow section of the population) or by casting other spells (e.g. charging nobles for teleports). Don't worry, it's not you...  (jasper). Not at all!  What I am saying, however, is that many of the factors that are required for an 'industrial' revolution are not in place in a standard medieval DnD setting.  Most of the factors mentioned evolved in the 16th-18th centuries.  Of course a DnD world could become industrial, but not given the standard parameters in the near 'future'.  As for alternative development, this is an interesting theory.  Unfortunately, we only have our own histories to look back on, and only our own theories to work with, and at current, the consensus amongst economic historians in that these factors are required.  Of course, they haven't commissioned studies on the effects of magic...<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />  A very astute point. Don't we all <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> ?herald:Though I disagree with mroberon's arguments, yours are flawed moreso.  My disagreement with Mr O is not that it is impossible, but that it is an inaccurate portrayal of attitudes and reactions at that time, in the same way my Murlynd's Spoon Revolution was flawed (and deliberately so).Simply put, mroberon is using the Wall of Iron spell (which has Instantaneous duration) to create a big mass of iron, then using the Fabricate spell (also Instantaneous) to make things out of that iron.  There is no logical reason why this is not possible; rather that 'couldn't', it is a case of 'wouldn't'.  Hope this clarifies things for you...I know these threads can get heated, and I'm hoping that hearing this from someone broadly agreeing with your standpoint allows you to accept his (perfectly viable) example.Edit: Dammit, oberon, why do you post before me and invalidate my points whilst I'm still typing them!Well, rather than re-type, I'll just say that such an item (the breastplate-manufacturer) could exist, but the prohibitive cost of producing such an item (not to mention employing an outsider) probably makes it not worthwhile; and of course, in those three months, the aforesaid wizard can be employed lucratively in activities described above.</blockquote>

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