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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Simplifying Dual Wielding in 5e-2024
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<blockquote data-quote="CM" data-source="post: 9686642" data-attributes="member: 18340"><p>As a <s>20+</s> (sigh) 30+ year DM, not very happy with the complicated interaction of Dual Wielder, Light weapon property, and Nick weapon mastery. Particularly the fact that there's no way to use two one-handed non-light weapons without having to use Extra Attack. I want people to be able to pair or mix & match rapiers, battleaxes, warhammers, longswords, etc. like every dual-wielding barbarian miniature ever produced. The 2024 rules, however, require you to lead with a wimpy little Light weapon to trigger the bonus action attack, giving me the nonsensical mental image of some barbarian maining dagger and offhanding a warhammer.</p><p></p><p>The only change I made was to <em>Dual Wielder</em>:</p><p></p><p><em><strong>Enhanced Dual Wielding.</strong></em> <s><span style="color: rgb(184, 49, 47)">When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a weapon that has the Light property, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn with a different weapon, which must be a Melee weapon that lacks the Two-Handed property. You don’t add your ability modifier to the extra attack’s damage unless that modifier is negative</span>.</s> <span style="color: rgb(65, 168, 95)">You treat all one-handed* melee weapons as if they had the Light property.</span></p><p><span style="color: rgb(65, 168, 95)"></span></p><p><span style="color: rgb(65, 168, 95)">*Yes, technically, this should say "melee weaons that lack the two-handed property"</span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: null">What this does: </span></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><span style="color: null">Round-to-round you can choose which of your two melee weapons to lead with, treating either as your "main" attack action (that gets the ability score damage bonus) and then use your bonus action to attack with the other. More options for situational weapon masteries!</span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><span style="color: null">With Extra Attack in the mix, you can attack with either weapon first to trigger DW, use Extra Attack to attack again with either (with ability bonus) and use the bonus action attack with the offhand (or the mainhand again, if you used your Extra Attack to do the offhand) and no ability bonus.</span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><span style="color: null">Side effect: can dual-throw javelins, spears, tridents, etc.</span></li> </ul><p><span style="color: null">What it stops:</span></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><span style="color: null">All 1H weapons are Light, so no need to worry about which weapon you have to attack first with.</span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><span style="color: null">No 4th attack with the Extra Attack + Light + DW + Nick combo (shrug).</span></li> </ul><p><span style="color: null">What it doesn't affect:</span></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><span style="color: null">Two-Weapon Fighting fighting style feat exactly the same.</span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><span style="color: null">Nick is confusion-free.</span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><span style="color: null">Off-handing or dual-wielding hand crossbows still works fine.</span></li> </ul><p><span style="color: null">What are your thoughts? Did I miss anything? Grossly overpowered or unconscionable nerf to Nick fiends?</span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="CM, post: 9686642, member: 18340"] As a [S]20+[/S] (sigh) 30+ year DM, not very happy with the complicated interaction of Dual Wielder, Light weapon property, and Nick weapon mastery. Particularly the fact that there's no way to use two one-handed non-light weapons without having to use Extra Attack. I want people to be able to pair or mix & match rapiers, battleaxes, warhammers, longswords, etc. like every dual-wielding barbarian miniature ever produced. The 2024 rules, however, require you to lead with a wimpy little Light weapon to trigger the bonus action attack, giving me the nonsensical mental image of some barbarian maining dagger and offhanding a warhammer. The only change I made was to [I]Dual Wielder[/I]: [I][B]Enhanced Dual Wielding.[/B][/I] [S][COLOR=rgb(184, 49, 47)]When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a weapon that has the Light property, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn with a different weapon, which must be a Melee weapon that lacks the Two-Handed property. You don’t add your ability modifier to the extra attack’s damage unless that modifier is negative[/COLOR].[/S] [COLOR=rgb(65, 168, 95)]You treat all one-handed* melee weapons as if they had the Light property. *Yes, technically, this should say "melee weaons that lack the two-handed property"[/COLOR] [COLOR=null]What this does: [/COLOR] [LIST] [*][COLOR=null]Round-to-round you can choose which of your two melee weapons to lead with, treating either as your "main" attack action (that gets the ability score damage bonus) and then use your bonus action to attack with the other. More options for situational weapon masteries![/COLOR] [*][COLOR=null]With Extra Attack in the mix, you can attack with either weapon first to trigger DW, use Extra Attack to attack again with either (with ability bonus) and use the bonus action attack with the offhand (or the mainhand again, if you used your Extra Attack to do the offhand) and no ability bonus.[/COLOR] [*][COLOR=null]Side effect: can dual-throw javelins, spears, tridents, etc.[/COLOR] [/LIST] [COLOR=null]What it stops:[/COLOR] [LIST] [*][COLOR=null]All 1H weapons are Light, so no need to worry about which weapon you have to attack first with.[/COLOR] [*][COLOR=null]No 4th attack with the Extra Attack + Light + DW + Nick combo (shrug).[/COLOR] [/LIST] [COLOR=null]What it doesn't affect:[/COLOR] [LIST] [*][COLOR=null]Two-Weapon Fighting fighting style feat exactly the same.[/COLOR] [*][COLOR=null]Nick is confusion-free.[/COLOR] [*][COLOR=null]Off-handing or dual-wielding hand crossbows still works fine.[/COLOR] [/LIST] [COLOR=null]What are your thoughts? Did I miss anything? Grossly overpowered or unconscionable nerf to Nick fiends?[/COLOR] [/QUOTE]
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