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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Yora" data-source="post: 6296292" data-attributes="member: 6670763">I think the question of Simulation or Game can be better understood as one about rules that either create a reasonably accurate approximation of reality, or focus on being fun to play. The rules of chess no longer represent anything, they are just used because playing with these rules is fun. On the other hand a train simulator may be highly accurate, but most people can not see any fun in it.But I think in either case, focusing on one or the other both miss the entire point of the game, as I see it.In both cases you are playing with the rules. Either because playing with the dice is fun,or because you like how they recreate an approximation that would be close to how things would happen on reality. (Though I would suspect that in almost all casesit's both.)However, and that's my oppionion, the point of the game is to have an adventure and as a group with the GM creating a narrative as things develop. When I run a game, I want the players to concentrate entirely on the events that are happening. I want them to think what actions of their charcters would make the greatest story. I don't want them to tweak numbers and play with the dice. Thinking about numbers distracts from the focus of the game.And that's where I think WotC headed into the wrong direction with D&D. Because books with character options and optional rules sell well, their games rely a lot on rules. And as I see it, way too much rules. So many rules that they distract from the point of playing the game. With 3rd edition, making character builds has become a way of playing the game. Which in itself would not be something bad for people who enjoy it, but it shows how over-complex the rules have become.And that's why the OSR crowd is not entirely fueled by nostalgia and aversion to change. There is a major difference between OSR games and d20 games, and that is the amount of rules and their complexity. I've been playing AS&SH recently, and even after over a decade of 3rd ed./PF it already feels so much more fun. The rules are there simply to give different characters diferent chances to suceed at the same time. And for that purpose, you don't need a lit of them.The last time I've seen a playtest version, it seemed better in this regard than 3rd edition, but eith each new version it became more clear that they wanted the rules to be fun, rather than unobstrusive. And from everything I've seen about WotCs business, they will be cranking out spkatboojs from day one again.</blockquote>

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