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<blockquote data-quote="The Crimson Binome" data-source="post: 6300624" data-attributes="member: 6775031">That's why I was referring to individuals, and substantive changes. Not all (classless) hill giants need to be identical, any more than all dwarf paladins need to be identical, so you'd expect to see some amount of variation within a race. The 3.5 DMG and MM did go into this, explaining how the stats in the MM were baseline (like how a human would average 10 in all stats), and how to vary the stats. I want to say that 2E had similar points in there somewhere, but I didn't really start DMing until 3E, so I can't say for certain.The substantive changes covers the issue of adding levels. Classless Gerry is substantially different from (Fighter 6) Gerry, just as Classless Giana is different from Classless Gerry and (Fighter 6) Giana is different from (Fighter 6) Gerry. You would expect them to have non-identical mechanical representations.This particular issue would be significantly less irksome if there was a progression from level 8 minion &gt; level 8 standard &gt; level 10 standard &gt; level 10 elite &gt; level 12 elite &gt; level 12 solo. That would be a somewhat logical way of representing how a giant improves over time. (Of course, that wouldn't serve the gameplay function of allowing you to use giants as low-level solos or high-level minions. And you would still have the issue that PCs and NPCs are advancing in different ways, but that's only tangentially related to this issue.)</blockquote>

[QUOTE="The Crimson Binome, post: 6300624, member: 6775031"] That's why I was referring to individuals, and substantive changes. Not all (classless) hill giants need to be identical, any more than all dwarf paladins need to be identical, so you'd expect to see some amount of variation within a race. The 3.5 DMG and MM did go into this, explaining how the stats in the MM were baseline (like how a human would average 10 in all stats), and how to vary the stats. I want to say that 2E had similar points in there somewhere, but I didn't really start DMing until 3E, so I can't say for certain. The substantive changes covers the issue of adding levels. Classless Gerry is substantially different from (Fighter 6) Gerry, just as Classless Giana is different from Classless Gerry and (Fighter 6) Giana is different from (Fighter 6) Gerry. You would expect them to have non-identical mechanical representations. This [I]particular[/I] issue would be significantly less irksome if there was a progression from level 8 minion > level 8 standard > level 10 standard > level 10 elite > level 12 elite > level 12 solo. That would be a somewhat logical way of representing how a giant improves over time. (Of course, that wouldn't serve the gameplay function of allowing you to use giants as low-level solos or high-level minions. And you would still have the issue that PCs and NPCs are advancing in different ways, but that's only tangentially related to this issue.) [/QUOTE]

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