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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 6300992" data-attributes="member: 87792">Comic cut.&nbsp;Storygames are a term invented on RPG.net because some people wanted to define My Life With Master as anything other than an RPG and the pro-storygames crowd are far more interested in designing and playing fun games than they are about what they are called.&nbsp; But how are you defining &quot;narrative resolution&quot;?&nbsp; Because I'm sure that however you are defining it, the field of Storygames as defined by the people who write and play them is larger.I'll quote that sentence in its full glory.&nbsp; &quot;Deliberately designed to destroy almost every kind of game design and game play from our hobby&quot; indeed!&nbsp; Because the Storygame Ninjas are really breaking into your house and stealing all your old copies of D&amp;D from your bookshelves.&nbsp; And my GURPS sourcebooks vanished overnight after I started playing Fiasco.&nbsp; Right.&nbsp; For that matter most of the Storygames/former Forge crowd is relatively familiar with the OSR and only has things against it when someone like the RPG Pundit is ranting.I read what I quoted from you.&nbsp; It's no more true now than it was then.If you are looking for immersive games about playing a role, almost all the Apocalypse World family leave any version of D&amp;D you care to name in the dust.&nbsp; Far more immersive.&nbsp; For that matter My Life With Master, the very game that gave rise to the term Storygames is much more immersive and much more about playing a role than any version of D&amp;D I can name.&nbsp; And D&amp;D vs Montsegur 1244 for playing a role?&nbsp; No contest.&nbsp; On the gripping hand, Burning Wheel and its D&amp;D-esque hack Torchbearer are much more ruthlessly built for the challenge than D&amp;D has been (mostly because D&amp;D grew as a trailblazing game while Torchbearer had over 30 years of experience to draw on).D&amp;D was written to be played in Pawn Stance.&nbsp; You didn't play in character.&nbsp; You played as if your character was a pawn on a gameboard, and the object was to get the most bling.&nbsp; And if you are not playing a role so much as playing a hacked boardgame or a hacked tabletop wargame (as D&amp;D was), wanting to lay out the board as scrupulously fairly as possible (which is a fundamental driver of simulationism) is sensible.&nbsp; And it's something I enjoy from time to time.&nbsp; But in such a game the role you are playing is that of a disinterested observer who is actively trying to avoid emotional entanglements because they lead to weaknesses and hence losing.&nbsp; If you want to play a role as a person within a world, rather than the avatar of a player, some storygames (notably almost any member of the Apocalypse World family) leave D&amp;D so far in the dust it's funny.&nbsp; Others (e.g. Fiasco) are about storytelling and put you into Author Stance.The big dichotomy is not the one you indicate.&nbsp; It's whether Next is going to go for some sort of world-simulation, or whether it's going to try to decide on something to be good at at the table.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 6300992, member: 87792"] Comic cut. Storygames are a term invented on RPG.net because some people wanted to define My Life With Master as anything other than an RPG and the pro-storygames crowd are far more interested in [I]designing and playing fun games[/I] than they are about what they are called. But how are you defining "narrative resolution"? Because I'm sure that however you are defining it, the field of Storygames [I]as defined by the people who write and play them[/I] is larger. I'll quote that sentence in its full glory. "Deliberately designed to destroy almost every kind of game design and game play from our hobby" indeed! Because the Storygame Ninjas are really breaking into your house and stealing all your old copies of D&D from your bookshelves. And my GURPS sourcebooks vanished overnight after I started playing Fiasco. Right. For that matter most of the Storygames/former Forge crowd is relatively familiar with the OSR and only has things against it when someone like the RPG Pundit is ranting. I read what I quoted from you. It's no more true now than it was then. If you are looking for immersive games about playing a role, almost all the Apocalypse World family leave any version of D&D you care to name [I]in the dust[/I]. Far more immersive. For that matter My Life With Master, the very game that gave rise to the term Storygames is much more immersive and much more about playing a role than any version of D&D I can name. And D&D vs Montsegur 1244 for playing a role? No contest. On the gripping hand, Burning Wheel and its D&D-esque hack Torchbearer are much more ruthlessly built for the challenge than D&D has been (mostly because D&D grew as a trailblazing game while Torchbearer had over 30 years of experience to draw on). D&D was written to be played in [I]Pawn Stance[/I]. You didn't play in character. You played as if your character was a pawn on a gameboard, and the object was to get the most bling. And if you are not playing a role so much as playing a hacked boardgame or a hacked tabletop wargame (as D&D was), wanting to lay out the board as scrupulously fairly as possible (which is a fundamental driver of simulationism) is sensible. And it's something I enjoy from time to time. But in such a game the role you are playing is that of a disinterested observer who is actively trying to [I]avoid[/I] emotional entanglements because they lead to weaknesses and hence losing. If you want to play a role as a person within a world, rather than the avatar of a player, [I]some[/I] storygames (notably almost any member of the Apocalypse World family) leave D&D so far in the dust it's funny. Others (e.g. Fiasco) are about storytelling and put you into Author Stance. The big dichotomy is not the one you indicate. It's whether Next is going to go for some sort of world-simulation, or whether it's going to try to decide on something to be good at at the table. [/QUOTE]

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