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<blockquote data-quote="Ahnehnois" data-source="post: 6301290" data-attributes="member: 17106">Given that the outcomes and the process used to achieve them are intertwined, this distinction really isn't persuasive. Any player could simply cry &quot;fiat&quot; if the DM chooses a framework that he feels was less favorable to him than some other possibility.Regardless of what definitions you'd like to coin, that doesn't change the fact that these three paradigms are redundant. An in-game outcome could be influenced by or determined by any of the above.Communication. The rules demarcate a shared space for fictional actions to take place, and because this space is infinitely complex, represent a dumbed down or simplified set of abstractions that allow everyone to reach a mutual understanding of what is happening.I don't see any connection between what players want and what drives the interactions of rules with game outcomes. What happens happens; the players may or may not want it, but that desire is really irrelevant. That's a metagame consideration for the DM to manage how he chooses.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ahnehnois, post: 6301290, member: 17106"] Given that the outcomes and the process used to achieve them are intertwined, this distinction really isn't persuasive. Any player could simply cry "fiat" if the DM chooses a framework that he feels was less favorable to him than some other possibility. Regardless of what definitions you'd like to coin, that doesn't change the fact that these three paradigms are redundant. An in-game outcome could be influenced by or determined by any of the above. Communication. The rules demarcate a shared space for fictional actions to take place, and because this space is infinitely complex, represent a dumbed down or simplified set of abstractions that allow everyone to reach a mutual understanding of what is happening. I don't see any connection between what players want and what drives the interactions of rules with game outcomes. What happens happens; the players may or may not want it, but that desire is really irrelevant. That's a metagame consideration for the DM to manage how he chooses. [/QUOTE]

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