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<blockquote data-quote="howandwhy99" data-source="post: 6302702" data-attributes="member: 3192">RPGing are games about performing a social role with most to all game design supporting that. As in all non-Storygames there are no shared fictions involved.It is indirect manipulation via the DM's hands, but it is still manipulation. Word choice is crucial, just like the term role playing (instead of storytelling or acting) and fiction, which you are insistent is something that was actually used prior to Forge and WW Storygames.You or I cannot know the absolute truth of what is going on, but I say these things are actual, not fictional like pieces on a chessboard. The rest of your explanation is just one more time (of how many?) of reiterating the same Forge explanation over and over. What you're implying is not what is &quot;truly&quot; going on.This is false in every version of D&amp;D. Each game defines game components like &quot;humans&quot; and &quot;biology&quot; and &quot;goblins&quot;. These are game terms relating to game constructs not the real world. Studying kings, queens, knights, and bishops will not make anyone better at Chess even though someone could try and construe it as a simulation. It isn't. It's a game to be played for what it is, not compared. At best, terms in D&amp;D are clues to how game elements may work in those games. The actual elements operate as they are designed.&nbsp;[MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION] I don't see us or much conversation in this thread going forward. You refuse to do anything but attack my &quot;false&quot; ideas and present the same theory over and over as the &quot;true&quot; way things are. It's an absolutist act that I'm ashamed to say provokes like response even in me. Do you have any other purpose in responding to me other than stepping on everything I post? If so, let's try that.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="howandwhy99, post: 6302702, member: 3192"] RPGing are games about performing a social role with most to all game design supporting that. As in all non-Storygames there are no shared fictions involved. It is indirect manipulation via the DM's hands, but it is still manipulation. Word choice is crucial, just like the term role playing (instead of storytelling or acting) and fiction, which you are insistent is something that was actually used prior to Forge and WW Storygames. You or I cannot know the absolute truth of what is going on, but I say these things are actual, not fictional like pieces on a chessboard. The rest of your explanation is just one more time (of how many?) of reiterating the same Forge explanation over and over. What you're implying is not what is "truly" going on. This is false in every version of D&D. Each [I]game[/I] defines game components like "humans" and "biology" and "goblins". These are game terms relating to game constructs not the real world. Studying kings, queens, knights, and bishops will not make anyone better at Chess even though someone could try and construe it as a simulation. It isn't. It's a game to be played for what it is, not compared. At best, terms in D&D are clues to how game elements [I]may[/I] work in those games. The actual elements operate as they are designed. [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION] I don't see us or much conversation in this thread going forward. You refuse to do anything but attack my "false" ideas and present the same theory over and over as the "true" way things are. It's an absolutist act that I'm ashamed to say provokes like response even in me. Do you have any other purpose in responding to me other than stepping on everything I post? If so, let's try that. [/QUOTE]

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