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<blockquote data-quote="Ahnehnois" data-source="post: 6302853" data-attributes="member: 17106">I don't think there's a difference there at all. The outcome is determined in large part by how the situation is framed.That's true, but I think the word &quot;deserve&quot; is misleading. I don't think it's about making value judgments on who deserves what (though if that's what a DM wants it to be about, he can make it that way). I think it's most importantly about asking &quot;what if?&quot;. What would happen in this circumstance?It's also frequently unclear to the players what's going on under the hood. The DM is telling you what happened, not how it happened. The players, like their characters, do not have a complete understanding of the causal chain (which is, in some part, the mechanics that are at play).That's why in some cases it makes sense to have players roll checks for impossible things and then just tell them they failed. Then they don't know that it was impossible. In other cases, you want the impossibility to be apparent, so you just tell them upfront.The same applies to successes. In some cases, you might want them to know that they rolled and just beat the DC, and other times, you might not want them to know that, and sometimes, you just want to move forward and not bother with the roll.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ahnehnois, post: 6302853, member: 17106"] I don't think there's a difference there at all. The outcome is determined in large part by how the situation is framed. That's true, but I think the word "deserve" is misleading. I don't think it's about making value judgments on who deserves what (though if that's what a DM wants it to be about, he can make it that way). I think it's most importantly about asking "what if?". What would happen in this circumstance? It's also frequently unclear to the players what's going on under the hood. The DM is telling you what happened, not how it happened. The players, like their characters, do not have a complete understanding of the causal chain (which is, in some part, the mechanics that are at play). That's why in some cases it makes sense to have players roll checks for impossible things and then just tell them they failed. Then they don't know that it was impossible. In other cases, you want the impossibility to be apparent, so you just tell them upfront. The same applies to successes. In some cases, you might want them to know that they rolled and just beat the DC, and other times, you might not want them to know that, and sometimes, you just want to move forward and not bother with the roll. [/QUOTE]

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