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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ahnehnois" data-source="post: 6303554" data-attributes="member: 17106">No, not every pitch. Just one. And only if it's thrown a particular place. And only given that this place is roughly the location of the batter's head.Again, the whole point of the example was to show something that is obviously an inappropriate request from the player. In the original context, it was about explaining why neither Charm nor Diplomacy is an example of player "fiat", because they don't allow you to directly change the world around you.The important thing to keep in mind here is that objectively, the request by the players should fail, and there shouldn't be a roll, according to the rules themselves (it's an impossible check). The question is whether they have an entitlement that grants them the ability to overrule the rules because they feel it's appropriate. And whether if they don't get what they want, they have been wronged in some way.That's your prerogative. It's contrary to most of the DMing and GMing advice I've read; particularly D&D has established a culture of "behind the screen" and in 3.5 there was ample text about specifically what rolls you're supposed to keep secret in order to limit the players' metagame knowledge.But if you've got a different agenda, then different techniques are fine.I'm not sure how you limit metagaming (I'm assuming that isn't a concern), but as my discussion with [MENTION=6688937]Ratskinner[/MENTION] above alludes to, many of us feel there have already been too many compromises in that regard. That is, that players have too much metagame knowledge and authority simply because it makes the game easier to run.Not that fun is bad, but I think that something as vague and as downstream as that is a pretty tough end to meet without having some more concrete process and goals leading up to it.Beyond that, though, I never really saw fun as the goal; maybe a goal, but not an inherent one or the most important. The phrase "Tyranny of Fun" comes to mind. Roleplaying is about an experience. If the characters are doing something fun, the game should be fun. If they're doing something that's not fun, I'm at a bit of a loss as to why the players should be yukking it up in the background. Most of the fiction that inspires D&D fiction isn't much fun. LotR certainly isn't. Nor is Lovecraft. Conan, maybe.</blockquote>

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