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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 6304793" data-attributes="member: 22779">So me sticking to my guns, preserving the setting and effectively ruling that no attempt can ever be successful to see the sage is different from your seeing the king scenario how?&nbsp; From where i'm sitting, it looks exactly the same.&nbsp; And it was a mistake for me.Again, I'm not bashing DM's.&nbsp; Well, I suppose I'm bashing myself.&nbsp; But, it was that event and others which made me realise how much I don't enjoy your style of game.&nbsp; That you enjoy it is perfectly fine.&nbsp; More power to you.&nbsp; The difference though, is that you have made repeated appeals to authority to try to make it sound like you're performing the one true way of DMing and everyone who disagrees with you is doing it wrong.See, something you have to realise is that I've DM's a heck of a lot longer than you have.&nbsp; I started at least a decade, and I think a bit more than that, before you did.&nbsp; And I've had first hand experience in seeing the evolution of D&amp;D through the DMG's.&nbsp; In the AD&amp;D 1e DMG, the DM is presumed to have a LOT more authority over the game.&nbsp; Heck, the advice says that players shouldn't even know the rules, only the DM.&nbsp; Plus, in many situations, there were no rules at all, so the DM simply had to come up with some method to resolve an action.Take something as simple as jumping.&nbsp; In 1e, you have no rules for how far you can jump.&nbsp; They don't exist.&nbsp; So, if you tried to jump, the DM made a ruling and you were strongly advised to abide by it.&nbsp; Which meant that at one table, it might be a straight Str check.&nbsp; At another, it might be a save vs paralysation, at a third, the DM flat out rules that you can't jump because of your armour.&nbsp; In 2e, this changes.&nbsp; You have Non Weapon Proficiencies.&nbsp; If I have the Jump proficiency, I have a pretty good idea how far I can jump.&nbsp; It's right there in the rules.&nbsp; However, there are no rules for how far a non-proficient person can jump.&nbsp; So, the DM steps in again and makes up rules on the spot.&nbsp; The DM still has a great deal of authority here, but it is somewhat eroded.Then you get 3e.&nbsp; Everyone at the table knows exactly how far you jump.&nbsp; There's no question.&nbsp; All that authority that the DM used to have is now wrapped up in the rules.&nbsp; Sure, the DM can change the rules, but, now it's pretty obvious when he does so and it's pretty obvious why.&nbsp; IMO, most DM's would simply use the rules and not get too fussed about making changes.&nbsp; You score X, you jump X feet.&nbsp; So long as my bonus=Distance-1, I don't even have to check to know I cleared the distance.&nbsp; It's automatic.So, we have a much further erosion of DM authority.4e takes things even a step further than that.&nbsp; Now, you have things like Skill Challenges, where the DM is advised to let the players choose whatever skills the player thinks is appropriate although the DM can still say no.&nbsp; However the onus on the DM is to say yes so long as the player can justify his actions in a reasonable manner.&nbsp; DM's are advised to &quot;Say Yes&quot; as often as possible.&nbsp; Which, in my opinion is a good way to run a game.&nbsp; For me anyway.&nbsp; Not for everyone for sure, but, it's a great way to run a game for me.&nbsp; I like it as a DM and as a player.&nbsp; So, to sum up this rather rambling thought, Ahn, you can keep quoting bits from the 3e DMG all you like.&nbsp; The 3e DMG is not the be all and end all of Dungeons and Dragons.&nbsp; It's not how I run my games and hasn't been for a long time.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 6304793, member: 22779"] So me sticking to my guns, preserving the setting and effectively ruling that no attempt can ever be successful to see the sage is different from your seeing the king scenario how? From where i'm sitting, it looks exactly the same. And it was a mistake for me. Again, I'm not bashing DM's. Well, I suppose I'm bashing myself. But, it was that event and others which made me realise how much I don't enjoy your style of game. That you enjoy it is perfectly fine. More power to you. The difference though, is that you have made repeated appeals to authority to try to make it sound like you're performing the one true way of DMing and everyone who disagrees with you is doing it wrong. See, something you have to realise is that I've DM's a heck of a lot longer than you have. I started at least a decade, and I think a bit more than that, before you did. And I've had first hand experience in seeing the evolution of D&D through the DMG's. In the AD&D 1e DMG, the DM is presumed to have a LOT more authority over the game. Heck, the advice says that players shouldn't even know the rules, only the DM. Plus, in many situations, there were no rules at all, so the DM simply had to come up with some method to resolve an action. Take something as simple as jumping. In 1e, you have no rules for how far you can jump. They don't exist. So, if you tried to jump, the DM made a ruling and you were strongly advised to abide by it. Which meant that at one table, it might be a straight Str check. At another, it might be a save vs paralysation, at a third, the DM flat out rules that you can't jump because of your armour. In 2e, this changes. You have Non Weapon Proficiencies. If I have the Jump proficiency, I have a pretty good idea how far I can jump. It's right there in the rules. However, there are no rules for how far a non-proficient person can jump. So, the DM steps in again and makes up rules on the spot. The DM still has a great deal of authority here, but it is somewhat eroded. Then you get 3e. Everyone at the table knows exactly how far you jump. There's no question. All that authority that the DM used to have is now wrapped up in the rules. Sure, the DM can change the rules, but, now it's pretty obvious when he does so and it's pretty obvious why. IMO, most DM's would simply use the rules and not get too fussed about making changes. You score X, you jump X feet. So long as my bonus=Distance-1, I don't even have to check to know I cleared the distance. It's automatic. So, we have a much further erosion of DM authority. 4e takes things even a step further than that. Now, you have things like Skill Challenges, where the DM is advised to let the players choose whatever skills the player thinks is appropriate although the DM can still say no. However the onus on the DM is to say yes so long as the player can justify his actions in a reasonable manner. DM's are advised to "Say Yes" as often as possible. Which, in my opinion is a good way to run a game. For me anyway. Not for everyone for sure, but, it's a great way to run a game for me. I like it as a DM and as a player. So, to sum up this rather rambling thought, Ahn, you can keep quoting bits from the 3e DMG all you like. The 3e DMG is not the be all and end all of Dungeons and Dragons. It's not how I run my games and hasn't been for a long time. [/QUOTE]

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