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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 6306111" data-attributes="member: 87792">This, in my experience is a complete misunderstanding of what is being said.&nbsp; You're zooming in to the single most irrelevant level there is.&nbsp; Why do they PCs want their characters to have an audience with the King.&nbsp; Although I can imagine people whose life goal is to have an audience with the King, the players don't wan the PCs to have an audience with the King as an end, they want it as a stepping stone.&nbsp; They want something from the King.It's also the DM's responsibility in such a case to give clues.&nbsp; The King is paranoid about dwarves to the point he will never see one.&nbsp; That's not the sort of backstory that stays entirely hidden.&nbsp; It's noted on - and because seeing the King is a means and not an end it is going to be something the PCs should take into account when they work out the method they want to use.On the other hand the &quot;No you do not get to see the King&quot; is being actively advocated by people.&nbsp; The &quot;You always get to see the King even if you are mortal enemies who he has sworn to have killed&quot; is a misunderstanding of what is being advocated.On the other hand when something that through their visualisation of the world should have worked doesn't you've just harmed both their agency and their immersion.&nbsp; There are times the PCs shouldn't know what is going on and things they expect don't happen.&nbsp; But these should be rare because each actively harms the player experience in a way things being easier than expected doesn't.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 6306111, member: 87792"] This, in my experience is a complete misunderstanding of what is being said. You're zooming in to the single most irrelevant level there is. Why do they PCs want their characters to have an audience with the King. Although I can imagine people whose life goal is to have an audience with the King, the players don't wan the PCs to have an audience with the King as an end, they want it as a stepping stone. They want something from the King. It's also the DM's responsibility in such a case to give clues. The King is [I]paranoid[/I] about dwarves to the point he will never see one. That's not the sort of backstory that stays [I]entirely[/I] hidden. It's noted on - and because seeing the King is a means and not an end it is going to be something the PCs should take into account when they work out the method they want to use. On the other hand the "No you do not get to see the King" is being actively advocated by people. The "You always get to see the King even if you are mortal enemies who he has sworn to have killed" is a misunderstanding of what is being advocated. On the other hand when something that through their visualisation of the world should have worked [I]doesn't[/I] you've just harmed both their agency and their immersion. There are times the PCs shouldn't know what is going on and things they expect don't happen. But these should be rare because each actively harms the player experience in a way things being easier than expected doesn't. [/QUOTE]

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