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<blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 6306308" data-attributes="member: 18">I don't think anyone is disagreeing with that. Your earlier position appeared to be that it was fine for a DM to &quot;Just Say No&quot; to players on the grounds that their PCs were &quot;low-level&quot;, rather than him being more reasonable and taking things (like the approach the PCs were using and so on) into consideration and deciding whether to allow a Diplomacy check and at what difficulty and so on.Personally I've let PCs roll against a DC they can't get, because their approach is ludicrous - and would treat a 20 not as a &quot;WOO U WIN!&quot; success but as them gaining a glimpse of how they might get if they change their approach. I think that's generally better that &quot;Just Say No&quot;, because it's more immersive and interesting, imo, but equally, I don't treat success as &quot;player fiat&quot; in a mindless way. Who does?EDIT - Also in 3.XE and before, some spells are &quot;player fiat&quot;, effectively, which is a problem.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ruin Explorer, post: 6306308, member: 18"] I don't think anyone is disagreeing with that. Your earlier position appeared to be that it was fine for a DM to "Just Say No" to players on the grounds that their PCs were "low-level", rather than him being more reasonable and taking things (like the approach the PCs were using and so on) into consideration and deciding whether to allow a Diplomacy check and at what difficulty and so on. Personally I've let PCs roll against a DC they can't get, because their approach is ludicrous - and would treat a 20 not as a "WOO U WIN!" success but as them gaining a glimpse of how they might get if they change their approach. I think that's generally better that "Just Say No", because it's more immersive and interesting, imo, but equally, I don't treat success as "player fiat" in a mindless way. Who does? EDIT - Also in 3.XE and before, some spells are "player fiat", effectively, which is a problem. [/QUOTE]

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