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General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Simulationists, Black Boxes, and 4e
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<blockquote data-quote="PrecociousApprentice" data-source="post: 4236546" data-attributes="member: 61449"><p>I am curious what you think are negative aspects that are inherent to the game mechanics of 4e. I would hazard a guess that this is a rusult of using an "emergent properties" world building approach with an "exception based, outpout oriented" game system. Exception based means that anything that is not desirable is mutable, to give you predictabel results that are desirable. The coolest thing in my opinion is that the designers have actually thought about results this time. It sounds like the game will be transparent enough that we will be encouraged to engineer the outputs that we want, and not just be subject to the emergent properties that develope from the system. Previous editions were all about process, results were all left as emergent properties, and you were outside common design space if you wanted to change it.</p><p></p><p>The thing that must be kept in mind is that the NPCs do not measure output. They <em>are </em>output. Players measure output. The output is the action that comes from use of NPCs. NPCs have a different role in the game than PCs, and should have. Choose the output you want, design your game to achieve that, and don't let the system determine the fluff, let the fluff determine the system. </p><p></p><p>The rules of the game are not the rules of the universe. The rules of the universe are whatever fluff you want. The rules of the game are there to enhance the play expereince and provide a framework for roleplaying. They allow you to create stories somewhat like the stories in literature, myth, legend, and movies. They are essentially all metagame. The rules of the universe are much more complicated than the simple rules in the PHB and DMG.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="PrecociousApprentice, post: 4236546, member: 61449"] I am curious what you think are negative aspects that are inherent to the game mechanics of 4e. I would hazard a guess that this is a rusult of using an "emergent properties" world building approach with an "exception based, outpout oriented" game system. Exception based means that anything that is not desirable is mutable, to give you predictabel results that are desirable. The coolest thing in my opinion is that the designers have actually thought about results this time. It sounds like the game will be transparent enough that we will be encouraged to engineer the outputs that we want, and not just be subject to the emergent properties that develope from the system. Previous editions were all about process, results were all left as emergent properties, and you were outside common design space if you wanted to change it. The thing that must be kept in mind is that the NPCs do not measure output. They [I]are [/I]output. Players measure output. The output is the action that comes from use of NPCs. NPCs have a different role in the game than PCs, and should have. Choose the output you want, design your game to achieve that, and don't let the system determine the fluff, let the fluff determine the system. The rules of the game are not the rules of the universe. The rules of the universe are whatever fluff you want. The rules of the game are there to enhance the play expereince and provide a framework for roleplaying. They allow you to create stories somewhat like the stories in literature, myth, legend, and movies. They are essentially all metagame. The rules of the universe are much more complicated than the simple rules in the PHB and DMG. [/QUOTE]
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Simulationists, Black Boxes, and 4e
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