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Simulationists, Black Boxes, and 4e
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<blockquote data-quote="PrecociousApprentice" data-source="post: 4239537" data-attributes="member: 61449"><p>So are there simulationist gamers that don't mind a serious metagame? Is simulationist a euphemism for "one who requires the rules to fade into the background"? I am curious about this. It might really change my understanding of GNS.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I had just thought that I had pinned down what category I could file myself under, and now I am back to confused. I am completely unfased by a metagame. I would have been once. I designed my own combat system at one time because the RAW D&D system was not realistic enough. I wanted less abstraction. Now I find abstraction to be liberating in that the rules don't have to be the physics of the world. Much easier to handle that way.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Fortune in the middle makes it possible for the result of a game action to make sense in the story every time, and in the way that the players/GM want, instead of relying on the rules to be perfect and create that "sense" inherently. I really think that if simulationists require that the rules always give them "believable" results, without narrative interpretation, then they are really in for a TON of frustration. I think that I read somewhere that you are a lawyer. You should understand that rules must be interpreted in order for them to have any consistent meaning. Fortune in the middle allows this. Fortune at the end relies on the inherent infallibility of the rules to get it right. We all know that the rules are not infallible.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I really like it when the GM is able to act more as a moderator than as a dictator. Players should get a significant level of narrative control, but this should be negotiated with the GM so that a consistent plot and world can be created. This might actually be thought of as giving the GM authority over the game world and plot elements, and giving the players more authority over the action resolution of their characters. I think that I might need to think about this more to fully flesh this idea out, but the point is that there should be some sort of sharing of narrative control. This is a very tough ballancing act, requires very mature players with no interpersonal issues, and probably a lot of work by the GM. The stage should be set by the GM, a direction negotiated between players and GM, and hopefully both parties will be creative and mature enough to create the stories of legend.</p><p></p><p>Almost as an asside, the PbP gaming that I have done and read has seemed to somewhat get at what I like about roleplaying. It is interesting that since the players and GM post at different times, with little imput from each other outside of the game, then there is really a great deal of sharing of narrative control. It was somewhat scary at first, but if done well, it can create some amazing stories. If not done well, it becomes the competing amature novelist olympics. I hate that. Ballance is everything, and consistent plot is still essential.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="PrecociousApprentice, post: 4239537, member: 61449"] So are there simulationist gamers that don't mind a serious metagame? Is simulationist a euphemism for "one who requires the rules to fade into the background"? I am curious about this. It might really change my understanding of GNS. I had just thought that I had pinned down what category I could file myself under, and now I am back to confused. I am completely unfased by a metagame. I would have been once. I designed my own combat system at one time because the RAW D&D system was not realistic enough. I wanted less abstraction. Now I find abstraction to be liberating in that the rules don't have to be the physics of the world. Much easier to handle that way. Fortune in the middle makes it possible for the result of a game action to make sense in the story every time, and in the way that the players/GM want, instead of relying on the rules to be perfect and create that "sense" inherently. I really think that if simulationists require that the rules always give them "believable" results, without narrative interpretation, then they are really in for a TON of frustration. I think that I read somewhere that you are a lawyer. You should understand that rules must be interpreted in order for them to have any consistent meaning. Fortune in the middle allows this. Fortune at the end relies on the inherent infallibility of the rules to get it right. We all know that the rules are not infallible. I really like it when the GM is able to act more as a moderator than as a dictator. Players should get a significant level of narrative control, but this should be negotiated with the GM so that a consistent plot and world can be created. This might actually be thought of as giving the GM authority over the game world and plot elements, and giving the players more authority over the action resolution of their characters. I think that I might need to think about this more to fully flesh this idea out, but the point is that there should be some sort of sharing of narrative control. This is a very tough ballancing act, requires very mature players with no interpersonal issues, and probably a lot of work by the GM. The stage should be set by the GM, a direction negotiated between players and GM, and hopefully both parties will be creative and mature enough to create the stories of legend. Almost as an asside, the PbP gaming that I have done and read has seemed to somewhat get at what I like about roleplaying. It is interesting that since the players and GM post at different times, with little imput from each other outside of the game, then there is really a great deal of sharing of narrative control. It was somewhat scary at first, but if done well, it can create some amazing stories. If not done well, it becomes the competing amature novelist olympics. I hate that. Ballance is everything, and consistent plot is still essential. [/QUOTE]
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