Skeleton Advancement Question

[WizarDru]

Am I correct in reading that when you create a skeleton, they advance depending on the root creature?

Specifically, if I create a Hobgoblin Skeleton, they advance by class, not by undead hit-die advancement, is that correct?

 

[Pinotage]

It can advance by the base creature if the base creature advanced by HD, but if the base creature advances by character class, the skeleton technically can't advance. Which is something I'd rule 0, since I don't mind putting latent character classes onto skeletons. Skeletal spellcasters and skeletal warriors or priests are fun.

Pinotage

 

[WizarDru]

It can advance by the base creature if the base creature advanced by HD, but if the base creature advances by character class, the skeleton technically can't advance. Which is something I'd rule 0, since I don't mind putting latent character classes onto skeletons. Skeletal spellcasters and skeletal warriors or priests are fun.

Pinotage

Ah, got it. In other words, I should make them a classed creature, then turn them into a skeleton (at least in the RAW). Cool, thanks.

 

[mvincent]

I should make them a classed creature, then turn them into a skeleton (at least in the RAW).

By RAW, creatures lose their class levels when turned into skeletons. They also don't pick up class levels afterwards (because they are "dead, mindless automatons").

I believe the only reason advancement is listed for the sample skeletons is because the base creature could have been advanced (i.e. big) before it was turned into a skeleton (it's certainly unlikely to keep growing after being skeletonized).

However, as a DM you are free to disregard that and make non-standard skeletons (i.e. ones that aren't mindless). Also, I believe the "awaken undead" spell in Libre Mortis can make skeletons non-mindless (allowing them to gain class levels).

 

[WizarDru]

By RAW, creatures lose their class levels when turned into skeletons. They also don't pick up class levels afterwards (because they are "dead, mindless automatons").

I believe the only reason advancement is listed for the sample skeletons is because the base creature could have been advanced (i.e. big) before it was turned into a skeleton (it's certainly unlikely to keep growing after being skeletonized).

However, as a DM you are free to disregard that and make non-standard skeletons (i.e. ones that aren't mindless). Also, I believe the "awaken undead" spell in Libre Mortis can make skeletons non-mindless (allowing them to gain class levels).

Yeah, I discovered that with a thorough re-read of the template after I posted last. I use DM Genie, and it kept resetting the creatures to cr 1/3 each time. I want mindless skeletons, I just want more powerful mindless skeletons. Believe me, if this were for my game, I would have just modified them, no questions asked (just check my story hour). I'm trying to get my numbers right, however, so I wanted to see if I'd read the rules correctly. The SRD entry and original source in the MM could be a little more direct in their answer, but I worked it out.

 

[Darkness]

I want mindless skeletons, I just want more powerful mindless skeletons.

They keep the base creature's Str and Dex (modified, of course). So if you use warriors, you're better off than if you use commoners, for example.

Desecrate.

Other than that, there are a lot of undead-enhancing feats (and possibly other things) in Libris Mortis.

 

[mvincent]

I want mindless skeletons, I just want more powerful mindless skeletons.

It could just be a matter of finding the right creature to skeletonize. Humans (and most other humanoids) cannot be advanced at all, but you could possibly find a more powerful (or properly advanced) creature of the appropriate HD. If you can't find one, you could always cast (or hire someone to cast) "Polymorph Any Object" to create the appropriate skeleton.

Hydra skeletons are particularly powerful for their HD (and scale well to any HD).

 

[moritheil]

Spellstitched, which I think you can use with skeletons, is fun.

 

[JoeGKushner]

I've messed with a few. Gnolls and Centaurs make good skeletons for example. Titans, due to their 20 hit dice, right at the cap, make good skeletons.