Skill Based Magic - Is it Possible?

[airwalkrr]

Basically, I'm wondering if a skill-based magic system is possible without major adjustments to the RAW. Primarily, I am interested if there is a skill-based magic system that utilizes Spellcraft, because as written there isn't much point in getting more than about 10 ranks in Spellcraft unless you are playing an epic campaign (and if that's the case you just max out the skill shortly before going epic and you're good).

I've heard people reference skill-based magic systems before, but I don't know of any in particular. Any recommendations?

I've been toying around with the following idea. A skill-based magic system in which spellcasters can cast any spell on their spell list without limit as long as they pass a Spellcraft check. The DC of the Spellcraft check is 18 + (spell level x 3). A spellcaster can memorize the same number of spells per day as usual, only the spellcaster may continue to cast that spell an unlimited number of times per day until he memorizes a new spell in its spot. To compensate for their reduced number of spells known and the fact that Intelligence is rarely a key ability for spontaneous casters, the DC is 18 + (spell level x 2) for spontaneous casters.

A couple of variants are possible in this system to help keep it in check:
-A roll of 1 always fails on a Spellcraft check to cast a spell.
-Whenever a Spellcraft check to cast a spell is failed, that spell can no longer be cast from that spell slot until the caster receives 8 hours of rest. However a caster could memorize the spell multiple times and still be able to cast it from other slots.
-Failure of a Spellcraft check by 5 or more results in a mishap, similar to scroll mishaps. This mishap could be rolled on a table or chosen by the DM.
-Divine casters have an alternate skill in place of Spellcraft called Pray which is based on Wisdom.

Any thoughts, comments, or suggestions?

 

[Plane Sailing]

As it stands this is more of a House Rules post, but I'll let it stand here awhile in case anyone can point Airwalkrr towards an existing d20/OGL ruleset that accomplishes his aim.

For instance, does Sovereign Stone do a skill based system? Or Black Company campaign system?

(It may end up spending a little sojurn in the d20/OGL games forum too, before going to House Rules eventually... we'll see how things go)

 

[airwalkrr]

Yea this probably does belong more in House Rules or OGL. I will split the post and make it those places. Feel free to delete it here afterwards.

 

[Pinotage]

Elements of Magic from EN Publishing is skill-based, I believe.

Pinotage

 

[PallidPatience]

Force powers from the Star Wars d20 game are also skill-based.

 

[The Lost Muse]

The Psychic's Handbook from Green Ronin is Skill Based, as is the Magic System for True20... basically you get a feat which allows you to put ranks into a spell, and then you get fatigue from casting certain spells. However, it wouldn't easily port over, because True20 gives you feats at every level (i think)

 

[RangerWickett]

Basically, I'm wondering if a skill-based magic system is possible without major adjustments to the RAW. Primarily, I am interested if there is a skill-based magic system that utilizes Spellcraft, because as written there isn't much point in getting more than about 10 ranks in Spellcraft unless you are playing an epic campaign (and if that's the case you just max out the skill shortly before going epic and you're good).

As Pinotage mentioned, E.N. Publishing has 'Elements of Magic - Mythic Earth,' which is a skill-based magic system. However, the extended playtest I've put this system through over the past year (over the course of running a campaign from 2nd to 9th level) has shown some of the flaws in my design. I'd like to share some of them, as lessons of what to avoid.

I've been toying around with the following idea. A skill-based magic system in which spellcasters can cast any spell on their spell list without limit as long as they pass a Spellcraft check. The DC of the Spellcraft check is 18 + (spell level x 3). A spellcaster can memorize the same number of spells per day as usual, only the spellcaster may continue to cast that spell an unlimited number of times per day until he memorizes a new spell in its spot. To compensate for their reduced number of spells known and the fact that Intelligence is rarely a key ability for spontaneous casters, the DC is 18 + (spell level x 2) for spontaneous casters.

A couple of variants are possible in this system to help keep it in check:
-A roll of 1 always fails on a Spellcraft check to cast a spell.
-Whenever a Spellcraft check to cast a spell is failed, that spell can no longer be cast from that spell slot until the caster receives 8 hours of rest. However a caster could memorize the spell multiple times and still be able to cast it from other slots.
-Failure of a Spellcraft check by 5 or more results in a mishap, similar to scroll mishaps. This mishap could be rolled on a table or chosen by the DM.
-Divine casters have an alternate skill in place of Spellcraft called Pray which is based on Wisdom.

Any thoughts, comments, or suggestions?

In your system, a maxed-out 1st level wizard with skill focus and that other spellcraft feat could have a +13 Spellcraft check. This would allow him to succeed cantrips 80% of the time, and 1st level spells 65% of the time. Whenever he gains a new spell level, the DC increases by 3 but his skill ranks only increase by 2. (This is assuming you don't allow him to buy a spellcraft-boosting magic item, because that would really skew the system.)

Do you know what is ridiculously irritating as a spellcaster? Failing to cast a spell in combat. Already your foes get saves to resist your spells, so if you add in a chance that your spell might simply do nothing in the first place, you've got a recipe for irritating the mage.

Additionally, while some spells are alright to be cast multiple times a day (things like burning hands are powerful, but hardly broken), there are a lot of spells that simply ruin the game if the PC has the chance to cast them an unlimited number of times. I discovered this to my chagrin when the party mage (at 7th level) was on the run from the city guard, and managed to charm just about everyone he ran into.

When we got up to teleport, well, then things just went crazy. It's kinda hard to have a logical setting when a few high-level people can just zip across the world at a whim.

Simply put, I've come to the conclusion that skill-based magic is not an optimal ruleset in the d20 system. The game is just not designed for it. If the game were re-tooled so that your spellcasting check determined whether you affected a target (instead of him getting a saving throw), then maybe it could work, but given how d20 works, I think there are better options.

I still don't particularly like the 'spell slot' approach, though, so I came up with a new option. Start with a magic point/power point baseline. Whenever you cast a spell, you spend MP. If you rest for a time, say ten minutes, you replenish your MP. However, some spells cause 'MP burn,' which reduces your maximum MP for the rest of the day. MP burn can only be recovered by resting 8 hours.

The spells that cause MP burn are ones that have long-reaching effects. Any spell with a duration greater than a minute (or a round/level) causes MP burn, as do most things with instantaneous effects other than attacks. Fireball you can cast all day, but magical healing, teleportation, and divination spells all have their limits.

 

[Vorput]

Simply put, I've come to the conclusion that skill-based magic is not an optimal ruleset in the d20 system. The game is just not designed for it. If the game were re-tooled so that your spellcasting check determined whether you affected a target (instead of him getting a saving throw), then maybe it could work, but given how d20 works, I think there are better options.

All of Wickett's points are good ones, I just don't think there's an easy fix to the d20 system in this regard without a significant overhaul of a lot of things.

Vorp

 

[Pickaxe]

I'm not familiar with too many non-core magic systems, so forgive me if I'm repeating some ideas well-known from other sources. I also realize that I'm probably pushing this thread further into House Rules, but here are two ideas for making magic skill-based:

1) Use skill points to determine specialization. For instance, each time a wizard puts a point in Spellcraft, she chooses a school of magic and adds one rank to that school. The number of ranks placed in a given school determine the maximum spell level that the wizard can cast in that school. So, all cantrips of all schools are available to a first level wizard, as well as up to four schools of first level spells (assuming max ranks). This may be too limiting, but you could allow bonus "ranks" based on intelligence modifier. The idea is that, instead of prohibited schools, wizards would simply have lesser knowledge of some schools and greater knowledge of others. Specialization benefits would be the same, but the wizard would have to maintain "max ranks" in the school of specialization. (It's a somewhat half-baked idea, but it could be shaped into a workable system, I think.)

2) Regarding the issue of casting a spell multiple times per day, one way to deal with the problems to which RW alluded would be to make each additional casting more difficult. Spellcraft DCs could go up by two for each additional casting, or spell point cost could double for each casting.

--Axe