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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
Skill Challenge DC questions for a new to 4E DM.
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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 5207886" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>Well, there are a lot of considerations going into what the numbers are. If you have DDI go read Mike Mearls series of articles on skill challenges and the skill check numbers they use.</p><p></p><p>The idea is not to make the numbers super high. Level 1 has difficulties of 5/10/15, which means a character with no bonus at all can usually pull off an easy task, has a fair chance at a moderate task, and will usually fail at a hard task. Likewise your average character probably has either a high stat or training or maybe other bonuses so they generally will pass an easy check almost all the time, pass a moderate check most of the time, and have a fair chance to pass a hard check. Your super skilled guy with a +10 will fail a hard check now and then.</p><p></p><p>Now translate this to game play. Would you climb a high wall with a 50% chance that you would fall off and injure yourself? Probably not. If you were desperate you might do it, but the point is if its a hard check with DC15 then chances are only the trained expert will even try it. If you now set your DCs so high that said character requires a 15 on his check (DC25) the players will simply stop climbing walls and find some other way to do things. If you MAKE them climb a wall, then only the super skilled guy has ANY chance at all. If for some reason the super skilled guy is not available then the task is hopeless. The default DCs mean moderately skilled PCs can give something a shot in a pinch even if its difficult and can stand in reliably when its moderate. Even a totally hapless climber can at least TRY to climb the difficult wall. He'll usually fail but at least he has a chance.</p><p></p><p>As far as SCs go its pretty much the same sort of thing. Checks are moderate (usually), but with a variety of skills. Generally not all of these skills will be available or not all of them will be available at a +10. On a low complexity SC the chances of failure are almost non-existent, the challenge is more about the story of how the players accomplish the task and its not likely a super critical task plot-wise. Now, lets look at what a low complexity on-level SC is, its the same as a single monster of the same level as the party. A combat against a single equal-level monster is really not even a fight. It will be dead on round 2 and lucky to even get a hit. The XP reward is 1/50th of a level advancement. It isn't supposed to be hard and using an encounter like that is certainly not meant to be a failure risk. Its purely there for plot purposes.</p><p></p><p>Now, a HARD challenge for a level 1 party would be a complexity 5 level 5 challenge, which is a level + 4 encounter (which the DMG classifies as very difficult). Even here the party should win in the vast majority of cases, it will just require good tactics and some use of resources. The DCs on an SC of this level will be 7/12/17, so even a character with a +10 won't be guaranteed to succeed on a given moderate check. You need to now pass 12 checks before 3 failures, which is a 75% success rate. If even ONE of these checks is made with say a +5 and failed that creates a pretty good chance of overall failure. Note too that you can restrict which skills can be used multiple times, only allow each PC to use a given skill once, set some DCs to hard, etc. All of these things can be used to make a given SC more interesting.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 5207886, member: 82106"] Well, there are a lot of considerations going into what the numbers are. If you have DDI go read Mike Mearls series of articles on skill challenges and the skill check numbers they use. The idea is not to make the numbers super high. Level 1 has difficulties of 5/10/15, which means a character with no bonus at all can usually pull off an easy task, has a fair chance at a moderate task, and will usually fail at a hard task. Likewise your average character probably has either a high stat or training or maybe other bonuses so they generally will pass an easy check almost all the time, pass a moderate check most of the time, and have a fair chance to pass a hard check. Your super skilled guy with a +10 will fail a hard check now and then. Now translate this to game play. Would you climb a high wall with a 50% chance that you would fall off and injure yourself? Probably not. If you were desperate you might do it, but the point is if its a hard check with DC15 then chances are only the trained expert will even try it. If you now set your DCs so high that said character requires a 15 on his check (DC25) the players will simply stop climbing walls and find some other way to do things. If you MAKE them climb a wall, then only the super skilled guy has ANY chance at all. If for some reason the super skilled guy is not available then the task is hopeless. The default DCs mean moderately skilled PCs can give something a shot in a pinch even if its difficult and can stand in reliably when its moderate. Even a totally hapless climber can at least TRY to climb the difficult wall. He'll usually fail but at least he has a chance. As far as SCs go its pretty much the same sort of thing. Checks are moderate (usually), but with a variety of skills. Generally not all of these skills will be available or not all of them will be available at a +10. On a low complexity SC the chances of failure are almost non-existent, the challenge is more about the story of how the players accomplish the task and its not likely a super critical task plot-wise. Now, lets look at what a low complexity on-level SC is, its the same as a single monster of the same level as the party. A combat against a single equal-level monster is really not even a fight. It will be dead on round 2 and lucky to even get a hit. The XP reward is 1/50th of a level advancement. It isn't supposed to be hard and using an encounter like that is certainly not meant to be a failure risk. Its purely there for plot purposes. Now, a HARD challenge for a level 1 party would be a complexity 5 level 5 challenge, which is a level + 4 encounter (which the DMG classifies as very difficult). Even here the party should win in the vast majority of cases, it will just require good tactics and some use of resources. The DCs on an SC of this level will be 7/12/17, so even a character with a +10 won't be guaranteed to succeed on a given moderate check. You need to now pass 12 checks before 3 failures, which is a 75% success rate. If even ONE of these checks is made with say a +5 and failed that creates a pretty good chance of overall failure. Note too that you can restrict which skills can be used multiple times, only allow each PC to use a given skill once, set some DCs to hard, etc. All of these things can be used to make a given SC more interesting. [/QUOTE]
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