Skill Challenge Design Feedback Wanted - Sea Battle

[dragnsteph]

Looking for some feedback on the below. It's sort of a mixed combat/skill challenge. I know the ship speed stuff doesn't exactly jive with what's been done in the past for boats, but I did base it in actual math I don't want to have them spend a week on the water to go less than 400 miles.

Anyway - I'm planning on unleashing this, or some edited version of this, on my players tomorrow night. Any constructive feedback welcome!

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Summary: The players are attempting to cross the Lirean Sea between Punjar and Kassantia. During the course of their journey, they are set upon by pirates!

Encounter level: 9

Complexity: 3 (8 successes before 3 failures)

Goal: Escape the pirate ship or gain an advantage in fighting them.

Travel Time: Max speed is 12 knots, or 14 mph (well-crewed, fast ship, good wind, with oars and sail). Average speed is about half that, allowing for wind direction etc. Distance to Kassantia is approximately 400 statute miles, or about 2 days and nights on the ship at slightly above average speed.

Ship Info: When ships reach bloodied, they are treated as damaged and must be repaired or they will sink within 1 hour. If they reach 0 hp, they will sink within 5 rounds. They have lifeboats aboard. Damaged ships travel at ¼ speed.

The PCs are on a ship named The Silent Star. It’s slightly smaller than the pirate’s ship, but built for speed, with more sails and an experienced crew. She is armed with cannons (at-will, +18 vs AC, 5d6 dmg, recharge on a 5 or 6). The Star is crewed by Captain Delancey Burke. His first mate is Reuben Randall, and he has a crew of 15. The Silent Star has 740 hps and a 32 AC.

The pirates are aboard The Blood Eagle, a 100-ft 3-masted ship. She’s as fast (maybe faster) as the ship the PCs are on. The ship has cannons and can also ram (encounter, +2- vs AC, targets enemy ships, close blast 5, 10d12 dmg). Crew includes Captain Howling Jane, first mate Jack Fargloom, and 15 crew. The Blood Eagle has 650 hps and a 30 AC.

Part 1: The Pirates Approach
The pirates will attack at a random point during the voyage. When they are spotted they will be at long range from the party’s ship (too far away for ranged combat). At this point, the party must decide if they choose to flee or fight, and attempt this skill challenge. Success in the skill challenge will enable them to choose to flee, or to turn and fight with advantage. If they choose to flee, they will be pursued by the pirates until they are close to land, with a small chance that they may need to undertake the challenge a second time. If they choose to turn and fight and are successful in the skill challenge, they gain a surprise round when they board the pirate's ship.

Movement is difficult (Acrobatics or Athletics, DC 14) due to the pitching deck. A failure on a movement check is treated as if the PC is slowed. If the ship takes significant damage (becomes bloodied), the lower decks will take on water and will at first become difficult terrain, then impassable.

Part 2: Boarding and Being Boarded:
For every 50 points of damage the ships take, they lose one crewman. If the ships close, either because the PCs fail the skill challenge, or because they choose to fight, the remaining Silent Star crewmen will only defend their ship. The Star crewmen are treated as minions and their captain and first mate will fight alongside the party. The remaining pirate crew will engage the party on either ship, but will not fight to the death if they can avoid it, and will flee if their captain is captured or killed.

Primary Skills:
Nature (hard DC): Attempt to use the terrain, currents, navigational hazards (rocks? reefs?) to either increase or decrease the distance between the two ships. May only be used twice.
Stealth (hard DC): Attempt to hide the ship or use terrain features to avoid detection. May only be used twice.
Bluff (moderate DC): Manuever in an attempt to confuse the enemy captain and gain ground. May only be used twice.
Athletics, Endurance, Acrobatics (moderate DC): Assist the crew in adjusting the sails.

Secondary Skills:
Perception (hard DC): From the Crow’s Nest only (successful Athletics checks, DC 10, climb 75 ft, or 15 squares). A success with this check gives the remaining PCs a +2 bonus to their skill checks.
The crow’s nest is a precarious perch. If the ship takes damage, a PC in the crow’s nest must make an Athletics check (moderate DC) or fall out of the crow’s nest. The PC takes 25+ 3d10 falling damage and suffers a -2 on his next movement check.
Diplomacy, Intimidate (moderate DC): Exhort the sailors to move more quickly, do their jobs more efficiently. Adds +2 to the next round of primary checks.
Thievery (hard DC): Party member uses their skill with ropes to add a permanent +1 to primary checks. May only be used once.

Damaging the Enemy Ship:
If a PC inflicts 30 points of damage in a single round, he scores one success. PCs may use perception to assist the crewmen on the cannons (hard DC). This does not count as a success toward the skill challenge.

 

[Lancelot]

Very nice... lot of effort into that. Some general thoughts:

• 15 crew seems a little light for the sort of vessel you're talking about (700-ish hp, cannons, rams, ocean-going, etc). Perhaps you mean 15 marines, while there are additional sailors (etc) manning other stations? A typical non-military/pirate caravel in the Real World would have 20-25 crew. A pirate, or a vessel that might expect a pirate, would likely carry considerably more.
• I'd suggest a bloodied ship suffer some sort of penalty, but 1/4 speed and sinking in 1 hour might be a little extreme. Wooden ships could take a surprising amount of combat damage, unless set alight (...although were prone to foundering in storms).
• From experience, requiring a skill check every time a PC attempts to move results in a frustrating static combat. I'd suggest dropping the movement penalty on deck to "Skill check required if PC attempts a run or charge maneuver". Regular movement should be unimpeded.
• Also, as the decks become flooded, I'd suggest they become difficult terrain / requires Swim check, rather than impassable terrain.
• Losing 1 crew for every 50 points of damage is a good idea, but highlights the point that the crew might be a little light. Losing 6 men from the crew above (after the ship taking 300hp damage / not even bloodied) would result in it being virtually unmanageable. I'd consider doubling the crew: 1/2 marines, and 1/2 non-combatant sailors.
• Stealth seems a bit of a stretch. I'd suggest this is actually an application of Nature (navigating into fog, etc). Stealth is a Dex-based skill in which an armor check penalty applies. Hiding a ship should be more of a Wis- or Int-based skill.
• I'd consider making Intimidate a primary skill for the challenge. Bold maneuver and threatening reputation were major factors in many nautical encounters. I could see an enemy ship backing off simply because the opposing crew suddenly shifted into a confident attack formation - even if (on paper) they had the (supposedly) smaller and weaker force. Who knows what magic or trickery they might be able to employ?

...but overall, very cool. Might consider something similar for one of my own games, when the opportunity comes up.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Another classic in naval combat was false signals - more uses for Bluff. A ship could fly a false flag to avoid a confrontation. A warship could try to make itself look more like a merchant or pirate or vice versa. A ship might signal non-existant consorts - which an attacker might plausibly be unable to see, if only because they're beyond his visible horizon - in the hopes of getting an attacker to turn tail. Conversely, an ambusher might signal requesting aid, in the hopes of luring you in.

 

[dragnsteph]

15 crew seems a little light for the sort of vessel you're talking about (700-ish hp, cannons, rams, ocean-going, etc). Perhaps you mean 15 marines, while there are additional sailors (etc) manning other stations? A typical non-military/pirate caravel in the Real World would have 20-25 crew. A pirate, or a vessel that might expect a pirate, would likely carry considerably more.

Losing 1 crew for every 50 points of damage is a good idea, but highlights the point that the crew might be a little light. Losing 6 men from the crew above (after the ship taking 300hp damage / not even bloodied) would result in it being virtually unmanageable. I'd consider doubling the crew: 1/2 marines, and 1/2 non-combatant sailors.

My reason for having the numbers be lower than one might expect on ships this size was that I didn't want to have the inevitable boarding combat be unmanageable (6 PCs, plus 4 named NPCs, plus an ungodly number of rank and file sailors and pirates, my head started to hurt -- not to mention the fight would be ridiculous long). I don't really expect either ship to get sunk before they close and fight - and there's a decent chance they may just try to run, they do have pressing business in Kassantia - but I see your point. I think I may follow your second suggestion, and have each ship come stocked with another 15 sailors that aren't necessarily represented on the battle map.

I'd suggest a bloodied ship suffer some sort of penalty, but 1/4 speed and sinking in 1 hour might be a little extreme. Wooden ships could take a surprising amount of combat damage, unless set alight (...although were prone to foundering in storms).

I had toyed with coming up with some kind of repair mechanism, but the skill challenge was already so complex I wasn't sure I should add to it besides, none of my PCs are shipbuilders, so they'd be sort of out of their depth. There is some danger of fire, as I've got two spellcasters in my party, and one ranger prone to flaming arrows. Do you think just increasing the sink time, and maybe making it half-speed, would be less extreme? How would you penalize it?

Stealth seems a bit of a stretch. I'd suggest this is actually an application of Nature (navigating into fog, etc). Stealth is a Dex-based skill in which an armor check penalty applies. Hiding a ship should be more of a Wis- or Int-based skill.

I'd consider making Intimidate a primary skill for the challenge. Bold maneuver and threatening reputation were major factors in many nautical encounters. I could see an enemy ship backing off simply because the opposing crew suddenly shifted into a confident attack formation - even if (on paper) they had the (supposedly) smaller and weaker force. Who knows what magic or trickery they might be able to employ?

I agree with both these points and will probably make those changes. It also occurred to me driving home last night that history and streetwise might make good secondary skills - knowledge of famous sea battles or famous pirate captains might give the PCs an edge. I dislike using streetwise like that, but I guess it incorporates knowledge (local) now.

Thanks so much for your feedback! We've struggled with working skill challenges in and having them be fun. I'm hoping they'll enjoy this one.

S

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

It looks pretty good overall.

Honestly though I wouldn't worry about the crew sizes much. Merchant sailing ships generally actually had very small crews. 3 people can handle a 75 foot ship under normal circumstances, so 15 man crew seems entirely reasonable, especially if the ship is making short runs of a few days. Manning cannons would be more labor intensive and the more elaborately rigged 19th century clipper ships and such had larger crews due to the sheer volume of sail they carried, but a standard medieval trading ship plying the Mediterranean could easily have a 5 man crew. Even your smaller 19th century cargo vessels wouldn't likely have much above that.

Now PIRATE ships (and warships in general) had considerably larger crews, but there were obvious reasons for that. As a guideline the largest east indiamen were on the order of 1000 tons, carried up to 50 cannons, were around 150 ft in length and had a total maximum complement of up to 300 persons including a crew of around 150 and presumably 150 or so passengers or marines. A 75 ft ship would be more on the order of 200 tons and might have a maximum complement of 50. I doubt they would have ever carried more than 25 crew. And remember these would be vessels designed to sail halfway around the world and carrying the maximum possible military capability for a merchant ship. Pirates might at most be along the same lines.