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<blockquote data-quote="ashockney" data-source="post: 4580846" data-attributes="member: 1363">I'm a huge fan of the skill challenge.The mechanic as it's written in the rules seems a little thin, basic, and generic.&nbsp; I've gotten some great advice from podcasts on open gaming, posts on enworld (especially related to KoTS), blog posts, and through some experimentation.I've included my findings on my ENWorld blog on a number of 4e fronts, including the skill challenges I've fun.A brief recap:From the DMG, it is assumed that a skill challenge is to be specifically defined by a DM, with a set &quot;level&quot; of difficulty, complexity, and two to three skills that logically would apply to achieve success.&nbsp; The results of success and failure are determined by the DM.&nbsp; Per the errata, you should alter the number of failures to 3 for all complexities, and the DC's for all should be reduced to be more statistically relevant for the level (Easy = 5, Moderate = 10, Hard = 15).&nbsp;&nbsp; In the example (The Negotiation) it is suggested that you use other skills as &quot;false choices&quot; that will result in failure.&nbsp; It is suggested in the example that the use of certain skills be used as simple &quot;rewards&quot; and &quot;penalties&quot; for success and failure during the skill.&nbsp; In the DMG, a linear &quot;example&quot; is provided for each &quot;success&quot;, with sample skill use &quot;rewards&quot;.&nbsp; In the example in KoTS, a linear &quot;example&quot; is provided for each &quot;success&quot; with skill uses (Sir Keegan's quest).&nbsp; In the DMG, success typically results in relevant information or access to the &quot;next step&quot; in the plot, while failure usually results in a combat, loss of time, incorrect information, or the lack of relevant information to move forward the plot.In my games, I've found that I am using some of the above, but have also taken on advice to make some slight modifications.&nbsp; Determination of a skill challenge is a joint decision achieved by the players and DM.&nbsp; There should be a clear course of action available to the players that ignores the skill challenge.&nbsp; The outcome/result of a success should be determined by the players, and approved by the DM.&nbsp; The outcome/result of a failure should be determined by the DM, and agreed to by the players. This should include a complexity and level for the challenge, that is reflective of the &quot;reward&quot; to the players.&nbsp; In this way, a skill challenge is &quot;announced&quot;.&nbsp; I believe that there should NOT be established skills for success, instead the players should be encouraged to be creative with their trained skills, and take the story where they'd like to see it, offering their own &quot;version&quot; of how they used their skill, assuming success.&nbsp; The DM offers a &quot;consequence&quot; for failure based upon the assertion by the player, along with a difficulty class for the roll.&nbsp; There's a chance here for fellow party members to assist, also requiring their relevant use of a skill and addition to the story, which is subject to DM approval.&nbsp; The roll by the player determines the outcome of that step in the challenge.An example:KoTS, the players determine they want to take assault the Kobold's Lair.I indicate the players must find their way there.&nbsp; Their options include:1) Pay 25gp to hire a guide (Ninaran)2) Succeed in a skill challenge to &quot;locate&quot; the Kobold's LairThe party checks skills on their characters, and agree they are up to this challenge.&nbsp; I indicate that failure will send them to a lair, the wrong one (goblin's lair for KoTS).&nbsp; I indicate this will be a complexity 2, level 1 skill challenge.&nbsp; The party accepts.They begin to tell the &quot;story&quot; of their departure from town, and highlight their primary skills.&nbsp; I determine the difficulty of each roll, and whether or not someone can &quot;assist&quot;.&nbsp; Wherever possible, in advance of the skill check, I offer individual success and failure as a consequence for each check.&nbsp; I can also &quot;force&quot; a skill check in this challenge upon the party, based upon their circumstances, and I often do if they're going through a challenge too easily.&nbsp; The ability to leverage your &quot;best&quot; skills tends to make success come a little easier.&nbsp; I will use the limiting of skills in the challenge as a &quot;consequence&quot; to failure, and open easier skill checks as a &quot;success&quot;.This approach results in clear success/failure consequences along the way.&nbsp; Whenever possible I try to make EVERY roll matter. We've had some great turns in the stories that form the foundation of the campaign.&nbsp; It has led to very entertaining, interesting, and laugh out loud outcomes.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="ashockney, post: 4580846, member: 1363"] I'm a huge fan of the skill challenge. The mechanic as it's written in the rules seems a little thin, basic, and generic. I've gotten some great advice from podcasts on open gaming, posts on enworld (especially related to KoTS), blog posts, and through some experimentation. I've included my findings on my ENWorld blog on a number of 4e fronts, including the skill challenges I've fun. A brief recap: From the DMG, it is assumed that a skill challenge is to be specifically defined by a DM, with a set "level" of difficulty, complexity, and two to three skills that logically would apply to achieve success. The results of success and failure are determined by the DM. Per the errata, you should alter the number of failures to 3 for all complexities, and the DC's for all should be reduced to be more statistically relevant for the level (Easy = 5, Moderate = 10, Hard = 15). In the example (The Negotiation) it is suggested that you use other skills as "false choices" that will result in failure. It is suggested in the example that the use of certain skills be used as simple "rewards" and "penalties" for success and failure during the skill. In the DMG, a linear "example" is provided for each "success", with sample skill use "rewards". In the example in KoTS, a linear "example" is provided for each "success" with skill uses (Sir Keegan's quest). In the DMG, success typically results in relevant information or access to the "next step" in the plot, while failure usually results in a combat, loss of time, incorrect information, or the lack of relevant information to move forward the plot. In my games, I've found that I am using some of the above, but have also taken on advice to make some slight modifications. Determination of a skill challenge is a joint decision achieved by the players and DM. There should be a clear course of action available to the players that ignores the skill challenge. The outcome/result of a success should be determined by the players, and approved by the DM. The outcome/result of a failure should be determined by the DM, and agreed to by the players. This should include a complexity and level for the challenge, that is reflective of the "reward" to the players. In this way, a skill challenge is "announced". I believe that there should NOT be established skills for success, instead the players should be encouraged to be creative with their trained skills, and take the story where they'd like to see it, offering their own "version" of how they used their skill, assuming success. The DM offers a "consequence" for failure based upon the assertion by the player, along with a difficulty class for the roll. There's a chance here for fellow party members to assist, also requiring their relevant use of a skill and addition to the story, which is subject to DM approval. The roll by the player determines the outcome of that step in the challenge. An example: KoTS, the players determine they want to take assault the Kobold's Lair. I indicate the players must find their way there. Their options include: 1) Pay 25gp to hire a guide (Ninaran) 2) Succeed in a skill challenge to "locate" the Kobold's Lair The party checks skills on their characters, and agree they are up to this challenge. I indicate that failure will send them to a lair, the wrong one (goblin's lair for KoTS). I indicate this will be a complexity 2, level 1 skill challenge. The party accepts. They begin to tell the "story" of their departure from town, and highlight their primary skills. I determine the difficulty of each roll, and whether or not someone can "assist". Wherever possible, in advance of the skill check, I offer individual success and failure as a consequence for each check. I can also "force" a skill check in this challenge upon the party, based upon their circumstances, and I often do if they're going through a challenge too easily. The ability to leverage your "best" skills tends to make success come a little easier. I will use the limiting of skills in the challenge as a "consequence" to failure, and open easier skill checks as a "success". This approach results in clear success/failure consequences along the way. Whenever possible I try to make EVERY roll matter. We've had some great turns in the stories that form the foundation of the campaign. It has led to very entertaining, interesting, and laugh out loud outcomes. [/QUOTE]

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