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<blockquote data-quote="bert1000" data-source="post: 4580985" data-attributes="member: 29013">In my mind the design goal for a skill challenge should be to present a complicated, mostly non-combat scene where1) success get you closer to your goal within the story and rewards you within the &quot;game&quot;2) failure gets you farther from your goal within the story and penalizes you within the &quot;game&quot;&nbsp;As you point out, rewarding and penalizing within the game is tricky.&nbsp; Because rpgs are open ended, what is player success / success within the game?&nbsp; It could be to gain as much xp per session, to limit character death, to be the best player at modeling the PCs actions, etc.&nbsp;As you and Zerakon have implied, in the end as long as the players and DM agree to keep playing, the story and xp gaining go on forever (maybe with different PCs if they get killed)...&nbsp;Even so, something still doesn't sit right with me.&nbsp; The &quot;within the game&quot; penalty for failing a skill challenge shouldn't be a relatively easy fight that yields more xp and treasure than a success.&nbsp;Again, I think it comes back to that fact that combat as failure for a skill challenge is just not good design.&nbsp; In my mind, it cheapens the skill challenge.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="bert1000, post: 4580985, member: 29013"] In my mind the design goal for a skill challenge should be to present a complicated, mostly non-combat scene where 1) success get you closer to your goal within the story and rewards you within the "game" 2) failure gets you farther from your goal within the story and penalizes you within the "game" As you point out, rewarding and penalizing within the game is tricky. Because rpgs are open ended, what is player success / success within the game? It could be to gain as much xp per session, to limit character death, to be the best player at modeling the PCs actions, etc. As you and Zerakon have implied, in the end as long as the players and DM agree to keep playing, the story and xp gaining go on forever (maybe with different PCs if they get killed)... Even so, something still doesn't sit right with me. The "within the game" penalty for failing a skill challenge shouldn't be a relatively easy fight that yields more xp and treasure than a success. Again, I think it comes back to that fact that combat as failure for a skill challenge is just not good design. In my mind, it cheapens the skill challenge. [/QUOTE]

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