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<blockquote data-quote="bert1000" data-source="post: 4582117" data-attributes="member: 29013">Well, in my P1 example I am assuming that the players decided they wanted to find the evil lair and do so in the most straightforward/quickest/easiest way possible.&nbsp; If that is not their goal, then this skill challenge would not be run.&nbsp;So with that as a goal, the penalty for failure as written is a relatively easy fight that yields +2,000xp and +1,500gp vs. &quot;success&quot;.&nbsp; And they find the evil lair.&nbsp;Yes, I acknowledge that their story goal was delayed, which is a failure in itself but it still seems odd.&nbsp;As others have pointed out rpgs are open ended, so many folks won't really care.&nbsp; If they succeed at the skill challenge the PCs get 1,000xp and get to engage the next encounter which could yield the same XP and treasure as the &quot;failure&quot; encounter.&nbsp;What is really going on is that the designers seem to think that the story delay by itself is a reasonable failure outcome.&nbsp; I want more of a real consequence, otherwise skill challenges don't mean much.&nbsp;I don't want failure to be a complete stopage of action.&nbsp; &quot;Ok, you failed the skill challenge, you can never find the evil lair&quot;.&nbsp; But I don't think it has to be.&nbsp;DM: &quot;Despite your best efforts, you can't find the evil lair&quot;Player:&nbsp; &quot;I think we need to find a guide...&quot;&nbsp;Real consequence, chance to introduce something interesting, players know that sometimes they fail and have to come up with another plan.&nbsp; This to me introduces some good opportunities for player creativity, and gives the players a sense of accomplishment when they do succeed at a skill challenge.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="bert1000, post: 4582117, member: 29013"] Well, in my P1 example I am assuming that the players decided they wanted to find the evil lair and do so in the most straightforward/quickest/easiest way possible. If that is not their goal, then this skill challenge would not be run. So with that as a goal, the penalty for failure as written is a relatively easy fight that yields +2,000xp and +1,500gp vs. "success". And they find the evil lair. Yes, I acknowledge that their story goal was delayed, which is a failure in itself but it still seems odd. As others have pointed out rpgs are open ended, so many folks won't really care. If they succeed at the skill challenge the PCs get 1,000xp and get to engage the next encounter which could yield the same XP and treasure as the "failure" encounter. What is really going on is that the designers seem to think that the story [B]delay[/B] by itself is a reasonable failure outcome. I want more of a real consequence, otherwise skill challenges don't mean much. I don't want failure to be a complete stopage of action. "Ok, you failed the skill challenge, you can never find the evil lair". But I don't think it has to be. DM: "Despite your best efforts, you can't find the evil lair" Player: "I think we need to find a guide..." Real consequence, chance to introduce something interesting, players know that sometimes they fail and have to come up with another plan. This to me introduces some good opportunities for player creativity, and gives the players a sense of accomplishment when they do succeed at a skill challenge. [/QUOTE]

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