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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Felon" data-source="post: 4630028" data-attributes="member: 8158">Are you fellows being coy? Who needs examples? In 4e, the math for the baseline is cut-and-dried: half-level, a +5 if trained, and an ability score bonus. The only variable is the ability score bonus, and with 4e, ability score bonuses tend to be more prescribed than in 3e--not many 4e rogues are debating whether Dex or Int should be their highest stat. The only other freebie to add into the mix is a racial bonus, if any. Figuring an average characters' total bonus at a given level is easy; it's breaking away from the average that poses problems. One distinction between 3e and 4e is that 4e's design goes to greater lengths to use the baseline total bonus of a given character at a given level to determine the difficulties of checks (in 3e, there were a lot of flat DC's, with many falling into the DC 20-25 area). If you manage to get ahead of the curve, you'll be able to handle higher-level challenges that by design a character of your level shouldn't be likely to succeed at. In the case of traps and hazards this is especially true due to their use of passive skill checks (which are flat-out pass/fail). It also shows against monsters whose level is higher than yours, and thus would also prove tough to beat (or impossible if employing take 10 or passive skill checks).This is all stuff I've said already, and I'm not sure where our disconnect is.</blockquote>