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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Felon" data-source="post: 4630856" data-attributes="member: 8158">Sure, those things exist, but I'd specifically used the term "baseline", and those things aren't inherent to the baseline character.I'd specifically used phrases like "of a given level", and the whole conversation pretty handily indicated that "average dude" isn't a reference to 1st-level NPC's. Basically, this just sounds like an attempt at deconstruction without the courtesy attempt at acceptance that should precede it. Well, first off, yes, you certainly saw 3e characters with 14's in their attack stat in 3e. You saw characters with 12's and 10's. How could you not? With few exceptions (Weapon Finesse), you used Strength to attack in melee and Dex to attack at range, and many characters simply had bigger priorities in their ability scores. Monks, rogues, scouts, and rangers all spring to mind as guys who had to attack with a 14. As to "why I care", let's do a little backtracking. People were discussing why skill challenges are kind of blah. I'd explained that part of why they're blah is that the numbers involved are usually too flat, too predictable, too homogeneous. In a skill challenge, you'll either have a character trained in a relevant skill or you'll have a character untrained in a relevant skill, and since the DC's for a skill check take those numbers into account, that pretty much comprises a very simple, routine set of numbers to play with. If I succeed on a 9, then likely someone else on the same end of the trained/untrained pendulum is also succeeding on a 9. Blah. I see a lot of folks promoting item bonuses and Skill Focus and feats and utility powers, but on the basis of empirical evidence, do your fellow gamers glom onto these things, or do their priorities for items, feats, and utility powers tend to wind up elsewhere?Now, I daresay my discourse has been about as meticulous as any you're likely to see on these forums. I've done my due diligence in terms of articulation. If the response is still "you're not making any sense" or "I don't get it", then we're pretty much at a dead stop.</blockquote>

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