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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mustrum_Ridcully" data-source="post: 4836289" data-attributes="member: 710">I'd file this under "exception based design".Okay, I would not. I might consider more: "Am I an unfair rat bastard DM for springing this on my players?" If they would walk into this unaware of this risk (because I didn't give them any clues), such an outcome for the challenge would be obviously unfair. In that case, I might have something like: Success: The PCs have to do something, but will get rewarded.Failure: The PCs have to do something, plus provide some souls to feed the Demon with, and if they can't provide that, it's their souls instead. A Skill Challenge "against" Orcus or Demogorgon might mostly involve convincing him you are worth more alive than dead.Primary Skills: Bluff, Diplomacy, IntimidateSecondary Skills: Arcana, History, Insight, ReligionGeneral Note: All primary skills can be used to gain no more than 1/2 of the successes required to beat the challenge. Secondary skills do not cause failures. Bluff: You lie about what you might do for the Demon. Success doesn't necessarily mean he believes any of your lies, but at least he appreciates your boldness. Diplomacy: Sweet-Talking is certainly the best way. You might convince him to not take your soul, if you can perform a task for him. Intimidate: Of course you can't intimidate Orcus or Demogorgon, but you show off your resolve to overcome even tough situations. Arcana, History, Religion: These checks indicate you have some useful knowledge. You can gain a +2 bonus to your next check with them. Gain up to one success by using one of the skills. Insight: Helps you read what might catch the Demon Princes interest. Gain up to one success, and a +2 bonus to your next check. Other skills: Any skill that might show off some notable or useful competence can be used to award a +2 to your next check, but a failure results in a -2 penalty to your next check.</blockquote>

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