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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 8733166" data-attributes="member: 6696971">[USER=71699]@clearstream[/USER]I think you're misconstruing my posts a little bit (ok, more than a little bit) because your responses above do the following:* Your words extend my commentary beyond the instantiation of a singular conflict to play broadly.  Both my commentary and the "hole of golf" analogy fails if you extend it beyond its intended use.  It is intended exclusively for the resolution of one conflict, no more, no less.* Your words appear to assume that a given matrix of the above component parts (Starting Point - SP, Endpoint - EP, Obstacle Course Array - OCA) doesn't exist.  I'm fairly confident you can run a conflict with any given matrix of the above and that it almost surely takes place in the wild.  I've talked to so many GMs, I've seen so much play, I've seen so much on forums, I've read so many TTRPGs, and I've run so many games that I'm pretty nearly sure of this.  Yes, a particular group of conflict matrices manifest a fair bit more common than the others, but you can find pretty much all of them without looking too hard.  You can find GMs who have prescribed all of an SP, an OCA, and an EPA for a singular conflict before play and you can find any one of those prescriptive components comingled with something different.* Your words seem to be sensing I'm making a value judgement about a given conflict matrix (one iteration among multiple that you'll find in Trad games) that I'm not.  My best friend in real life is the Traddiest Trad GM possible and we talk routinely about his scenario design and his running of conflicts and his (impossible not to happen in play) reveals and his (admitted) railroading.  I don't have a negative feeling about his play.  I know intimately why he does it.  I know that it works swimmingly for his table and I know that his players wouldn't like some of the games that I run. I also know it is but one way to design scenarios and/or run conflicts in Trad games (there are multiple…you’ll find more diversity in conflict matrices in Trad games than in other games…and that is Working as Intended for those games…I’m not making value judgements about that…but I am affirming it exists and is distinguishable from an alternative matrix of SP > OCA > EP).I don't have a value judgement about his Starting Point > Obstacle Course Array > Endpoint matrix for his conflicts.  It is what it is.  I'm not even interested in making a value judgement about it.  However, I am interested in discussing 4e Skill Challenges and how they are distinct from the SP > OCA > EP of my friend (and they are quite different).  That is an interesting conversation of design intent and play instantiation of various forms of conflict resolution.</blockquote>

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