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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 8737625" data-attributes="member: 82106">I see what you are saying, but personally I don't think that having some intricate logical puzzle of tactical skill to solve is going to ADD to an RPG. In fact I think it actually detracts! Now, it might be that you could, theoretically, construct an interesting game around any given situation you might encounter in game, but that solution won't be fit for any other sorts of situations, or at best only a very narrow range of them. We have combat systems ONLY because combat is so ubiquitous in D&D. If it wasn't, the page space would be largely wasted. I'd note that the combat system is NOT applied to other 'combat-like' situations either, because it clearly isn't entirely appropriate (IE we don't have a system for adjudicating 'races and chases' that relies on 'attack' rolls, 'hit points', etc.) You could mechanically do these things, but it would not mesh well with the fiction and the result is awkward and distracts from play, overall. Meh, I don't really agree. D&D combat, even the 4e variety which was quite detailed and fairly tactical, isn't a GREAT wargame. I mean, I have done a lot of wargaming, I would not even bother for 2 seconds with a 5e-derived, or AD&D-derived, or 3.x-derived, tactical wargame. I might start with what is in 3.x or 4e, perhaps, but it would require a lot of refinement to be a passable combat game.Its a decent tactical mini-game which is sufficient to adjudicate combat situations within the context of an RPG. Even just in terms of the way resource utilization and such work in 4e the combat system, as a standalone game, runs into some pretty big issues. I mean, we tried it, and all the PCs just alpha-striked the monsters with their daily powers and that was the end of that! I'm sure it isn't that hard to make adjustments, but also a lot of the powers don't actually work in an optimum way when you consider only tactics and not fiction, etc.I don't agree, because the gameplay and the fiction are inextricably linked in RPGs.So, your answer is, I don't think the game play of an SC is good on its own, so I will just remove all pretense that there is any game play at all? Because the alternative is 5e free-form skill checks, which has so little structure it cannot even be called a game by itself! It certainly isn't even on a par with a 4e Skill Challenge. If you are suggesting that BitD clocks are somehow a robust standalone model of game play, I don't know what to say. They are so deeply embedded in the fictional flow of the game that I, once again, cannot really imagine the 'clock setting game' in any meaningful way outside of RP and fiction. It sure doesn't seem in some way to be a more robust game on its own than a 4e SC, which at least has a defined structure and win/loss criteria that are internally consistent, if rather boring on their own.I find it difficult to understand where you're coming from, to be honest. RPG mechanics are part of a whole. They serve a purpose in helping to structure, guide, and direct the play of the game and provide some basic at-the-table motivations and indicators, resources, etc.</blockquote>

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