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<blockquote data-quote="Pedantic" data-source="post: 8737898" data-attributes="member: 6690965">Okay, this is legitimate confusion on my part. You're suggesting that the failure states for skill challenges might result in other minigames irrespective of the larger skill challenge, which makes sense and is not a scale on which I'd considered the use of a skill challenge.I don't think it really answers any of my concerns, but it's interesting. If you generalized the skill challenge structure away from resolution and up to adventure design, thus that your &quot;failures&quot; and &quot;successes&quot; aren't so much about individual roles but generic obstacles, I'd be more onboard. Though again, I don't know that I'd find the particular timing structure useful so much as restrictive.I really want to clarify that I don't like Blades, I've played it once, and found it profoundly disempowering, as the entire game is bent on pushing you toward increasing complication. I think there's a separate line of discussion contrasting SCs and BitD clocks, which is not a race I have a dog in, and if I had to pick, would probably push for skill challenges, as they at least don't include &quot;success at a cost&quot; as a possible outcome on every roll.When I played Blades, it captured exactly the inverse feeling I want from a heist, in that it eliminates the fun careful planning bit, and then sets up incentives thus that you can never actually benefit from having been prepared because the entire game is structured to keep sending you complications. I spent that whole game trying to figure out how not to trigger rolls.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Pedantic, post: 8737898, member: 6690965"] Okay, this is legitimate confusion on my part. You're suggesting that the failure states for skill challenges might result in other minigames irrespective of the larger skill challenge, which makes sense and is not a scale on which I'd considered the use of a skill challenge. I don't think it really answers any of my concerns, but it's interesting. If you generalized the skill challenge structure away from resolution and up to adventure design, thus that your "failures" and "successes" aren't so much about individual roles but generic obstacles, I'd be more onboard. Though again, I don't know that I'd find the particular timing structure useful so much as restrictive. I really want to clarify that I don't like Blades, I've played it once, and found it profoundly disempowering, as the entire game is bent on pushing you toward increasing complication. I think there's a separate line of discussion contrasting SCs and BitD clocks, which is not a race I have a dog in, and if I had to pick, would probably push for skill challenges, as they at least don't include "success at a cost" as a possible outcome on every roll. When I played Blades, it captured exactly the inverse feeling I want from a heist, in that it eliminates the fun careful planning bit, and then sets up incentives thus that you can never actually benefit from having been prepared because the entire game is structured to keep sending you complications. I spent that whole game trying to figure out how not to trigger rolls. [/QUOTE]

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