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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 8738747" data-attributes="member: 6696971">I’m just going to focus on this for now because your commentary on Blades shows a profound amount of daylight between us in terms of working mental models with respect to what player agency means and how that intersects with system (and likely player protagonism), that the conversation there will be massive.Like we’re so far apart on that (eg you think something like D&D 3e yields more autonomy and more control over the trajectory of play and more authenticity and competitive integrity within the tactical/strategic profile of a player’s OODA LOOP than in Blades) that it’s going to be difficult to even have a conversation because our information processing/integration and the principles that undergird them diverge nearly completely.We can maybe get to that later.Let’s focus on the quoted bit first.  So let me see if I can resolve your confusion.  Order of operations on a Skill Challenge (I'm going to repurpose some fiction in one of my two Stonetop games):* The players have just decided to leave their home steading and confront the neighboring steading's military caravan that is bearing down on their home.  Aggression is likely so they want to get their Companion Characters (a pair of Rangers - Artillery in 4e Parlance) in an overwatch position on top of a butte overlooking the point they're going to intercept the caravan and confront them.  The Druid says "you know what...go ahead...I'll catch up.  Remember how Trys and Cullen encountered that Ankheg that was out in the Weald (a wild area of long grass, swamped reedy gulleys and gentle grassy rises)?  I think he might be useful here...particularly against those Fen Trolls pulling the lead wagon.  I'm going to attempt to gain its trust and convince it to join us for a hearty meal!"* GM has to clarify goal and stakes and then actuate this with a Level and Complexity.  "Alright, so the goal is to get back in time for the conflict with a friendly neighborhood Ankheg relatively leashed, yeah?  Alright, if this is successful, you can have an Ankheg Companion Character for the coming conflict (parley Skill Challenge or actual combat depending upon what the players do).  If you fail, you're going to be stuck in a combat with the Ankheg and you'll arrive late to whatever conflict comes next (mid Skill Challenge if its parley and beginning of round 2 if its combat).  Level + 2 Skill Challenge, Complexity 2; you've got to get there quickly > convince the ankheg > the two of you get back quickly.Alright, at this point I'm going to describe the opening situation (the topographical features, distance and terrain, between the Druid and the Ankheg's territory in the Weald).  The player will then tell me how they're proposing to surmount this obstacle.  If the Druid has the Overland Flight Ritual, then they spend the 100 Coin and make a Nature check to determine Overland Speed.  I'd go with 24 or lower and that is 1 Success (the lowest rate) and 25 + and 2 successes.  Its an auto-success regardless as they're investing in this resource (and did at character build) precisely to surmount this kind of obstacle.  It just depends on if its 1 or 2.  If they shapeship into a fast animal and deploy the Encounter Power Spirited Wind to mitigate the rise and fall of the undulating terrain as the wind picks them up so they can surmount the snaking reed swamps around the meadowy rises, then they can have +2 to their Nature check.  Now if they get a micro-failure here?  What is then in play for a consequence?  Well, obviously they accrue 1 failure, I'll hit them with a Healing Surge loss, and I'll adversely change the situation with one of the following consequences:* "Your culling of the wind spirit from its daily elemental duties undoubtedly annoys the Elder Spirit of the sky.  You can see a great storm converging on the horizon, a sudden darkness consumes your path before you, terrible thunder, lightning, rain, galeforce downdrafts will assail your way forward and possibly frighten your Ankheg into staying in its burrow.  I'm going to go ahead and use the 1 Hard DC I have for this Complexity 2 challenge.  What do you do?"* "The wind spirit you culled from the sky is cantankerous as hell or is just rascally and having fun with you.  Regardless, on one of the great leaps into the air, the buffetting wind almost appears to chuff or chuckle...and then deposits you straight into the thick muck of one of those reed swamps.  You're hip deep in the mire and its a sucking bog, not particularly intent upon letting you free.  What do you do?"Those complications are thematic to the Druid, they satisfy the fiction of the player's move made, and they satisfy changing the situation adversely in such a way that a new obstacle fittingly intercedes between the PC and the player's espoused global goal (getting to and charming a beast the is available for charming > getting back in time for the fireworks).This is bog standard consequence handling specifically and procedures and GMing principles generally for 4e Skill Challenges (and other conflict resolution frameworks that are kindred to Skill Challenges) and looks like any one of the 700 + Skill Challenges I ran from 2008 to 20017 (wow...my last game was 5 years ago...where did the time go!).</blockquote>

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